An extended family member has a daughter in high school. He doesn’t have a college degree and works in an assembly plant for an automaker. He sees that the skill trades people in the union can make a lot of money, (he says ~$130k per year), and wonders why (quite reasonably, I should add) going into skilled trades wouldn’t make more sense than college from a financial perspective.
My thoughts are:
It comes down to the individual student. For a strong student who is likely to finish college, and choose more employable major, college will usually be the best path. The further from that description a student is, the more that a skilled trade could make more sense financially.
Skilled tradespeople don’t typically earn $130k, on average. That is an outlier that only a small percentage of skilled trades people will achieve.
What am I missing? I do think that there is a place for skilled trades people, but I also want to suggest that routing his daughter away from college may not be the best approach. Thoughts?
Much depends on the person’s career path – something that’s hard to predict at 18.
Even if an individual finds a way to earn a good living that does not require a college degree, advancement in the career may be limited because he/she didn’t go to college. For example, if the man who works in the auto plant wanted to advance to a management position, he might find that path blocked because there may be a requirement that managers have to be college graduates.
A friend of my son’s left college without graduating and took a full-time job at the store where he had been working part-time. He was able to advance to a first-level supervisory position fairly quickly. But he couldn’t advance any further. All jobs above that level required college degrees.
I echo that it depends entirely on the student. 1) the student needs to be interested in that trade; 2) going into a trade doesn’t preclude college. There are lots of colleges who love to take on people who have had earlier careers. The skilled-trade route can be a great start for some students who are smart, but who just couldn’t hack it academically in high school. Think: late bloomers or those who are more visual-spacial oriented than linguistically oriented. HS tends to be all linguistic teaching and nearly zero visual-spacial teaching, whereas the skilled trade is the reverse. Feeling competent doing hands-on work can build confidence. My H started this way. He bombed HS, went into a Union visual-spacial job in a major city, and ended up later attending college for a mathy-sciency-social science type thing. Now he’s at the tippy top of his extremely intellectual profession. If the person loves the skilled trade, then they can also stay in that trade, get a good Union job and do well. Welders make like $80/hour where I live . . . . just a thought!
My husband is in construction and has many friends in the skilled trades. Money is good when there are jobs, but it can be very bad when there aren’t. A good friend was out of steady work for two full years because the union construction jobs just weren’t available and you can’t take nonunion if you want to stay in the union. Construction jobs take several months and locations can vary – one job site may be local but the next might be 2 or 3 hours away – it depends on what contracts the companies win.
Job security is industry dependent. Our broadcasting friends are seeing more and more shops using daily hires and part-timers instead of full-time staff with benefits. Fewer union shops mean more competition. If you have kids and a mortgage you may not be able to afford to wait for a union job, and the pay and benefits for nonunion isn’t as high.
People with specialized skills may have trouble finding another job if their company closes or relocates. When IBM moved out of the Hudson Valley in the 90’s, the people we knew who had general business related skills had an easier time finding work than those who had specialized skills. Even those whose skills aren’t that specialized may have trouble locating a new job in that situation if the market is flooded with displaced workers. Some were able to locate work, but it didn’t pay anything like their previous job did. I like the skilled trades, but I wouldn’t encourage any student to pursue any career whose skills don’t translate well to other industries unless that’s what they really want.
I think in recent years our culture has gone way overboard with the college for everyone thing, which is causing financial stress for many families without the clear benefits in employability some expected. And many kids are going to college, either not finishing or flunking, and are still saddled with loans.
The trades can indeed be lucrative. Manufacturing jobs have declined of course.
There are countless programs for adult learners in colleges and universities and it is quite possible to work toward a degree taking one class at a time, while working. One of mine is doing this. She has way more experience in the work world than her very educated siblings, and I am sure she will end up okay.
In the meantime our high schools need to work on giving the same respect to kids going to work or the military as they do kids going to college. Many administrations are invested in college admissions for reasons other than the well-being of the students.
Seems like credential creep, if the jobs in question require college degrees even if they do not require either specific skills or general intellectual development studied or practiced in college. Especially for an internal promotion of someone who has already proven his/her ability to do useful work.
Such credential creep also increases socioeconomic class divisions, since college completion is heavily influenced by parental income, independent of student ability.
i completely agree that the two are not mutually exclusive, and i think it can be a fantastic path for plenty of people, not just adult learners. there is a huge myth that Vo-Tech kids dont go to college…while certainly many join the workforce, some absolutely do further their education.
i’m a firm believer is being able to feed oneself. if having a skillset can be used to say, finance that college education, i’m all for it. I personally took a hard look at what our high school vocational program offered since we have a unique program in which they can start as seniors and continue as super seniors–its sort of the best of both worlds for the right kid with the right tract. unfortunately for us, the offering was ridiculously weak for my kids interest (why idk–they are primed to offer real substance, instead the focus was on unemployable skills).
in our case it would have sort of served as a glorified gap year. sorta. kinda. but the end game would have always been to head to college–that was a given regardless of what that path was.
i respect those who go down it–i’ve said it a million times, the neighborhood electrician is the best paid guy i know. and interestingly, he’s now back in college as a grown up in the medical field. one never knows where life will take you.
Just to clarify “adult learner” programs include young people who are 18. Same as continuing education, extension schools etc. Just programs with flexibility in terms of how many courses to take, how long to take to graduate, flexible timing of classes (evenings, weekends) and so on. “Adult learner” is misleading but it is just one label among many for this type of program. Some are part of the regular academic programs and some are separate.
For those kids who aren’t interested in a four year college degree but want to work in the trades, its a good investment to at least consider a 2 year business admin degree. This can be done at night while they are working as apprentices in their choice of labor fields (plumbing, electrical, contracting, etc). Many of those who wish to work in the trades also want to eventually work for themselves and having some business background is essential to running a business obv. I come from a very blue collar area and it seems the workers who can’t get past that low-middle class income bracket are the ones whose businesses are not doing well because they aren’t savvy on QuickBooks, or CAD, or general office management, or in some cases just lack the ambition necessary to build your own business.
Its really good if the kids figure this out early and attend a technical high school where they’ll learn quite a bit about their trade, have the opportunity to do their apprenticeships while juniors and seniors (and make $$ at the same time) and still get an education background that allows them to attend the local community college or state school. My son and many of his friends attended the local tech high school, some like my son went into the military, others have become very competent and successful in their fields, and then of course there are others that just went that route because they thought it would be easier than traditional high school and are failing to be responsible members of the community.
DH and I own a plumbing and heating company - there is a huge lack of skilled labor in our field and it’s going to get worse. Skilled tradesmen in urban areas (ie a HVAC tech in Dallas) can earn 6 figures. Plus, your employer typically pays for your education. As owners, I can tell you we make more than most. We are primarily residential and are non union - so big swings in the economy don’t affect us much because water heaters will always spring leaks and furnaces will always die. I would encourage any high school student with mechanical abilities to at least consider the trades.
Totally agree with this. Unfortunately, most people still see college as the gateway to a successful future, and aren’t willing to risk their livelihood, or their kids livelihood, by going against this norm and choosing a trade school path. The college route is perceived by most as being the “easier”/less risky route to take, I think.
Ironically, the people who complain most about credential creep are usually the same people contributing to the problem of credential creep. I applaud Germany’s system where tradespeople are looked upon in a positive light. In other words, don’t simply follow whichever path is more socially acceptable, follow your talent…
It really isn’t about money, because income in the trades can be fine. It’s about how society views the trades, which is a shame and honestly just plain strange!
The interesting thing is that college itself is being changed to a sort of trade school, since everyone wants a direct career outcome, and there is high interest in vocational majors.
I like the system in other countries where both “tracks” are honorable and university can be outright intellectual for those who are so inclined. But maybe it’s changing elsewhere too. .
I really appreciate all of the thoughts from everyone.
I am trying to think through this response to his comments carefully because I know it will come up again. I have a feeling that since the father who is making this point did not go to college, and neither did his wife, that he has somewhat of a bias against college in general for his two kids. (I didn’t go and you don’t need to either).
So, while I largely agree with him that more students should consider trades, than do it today, I don’t want him to decide to broaden that statement to mean that his daughters would be better off in trade school than in college, and shouldn’t seriously consider college. I am trying to encourage him to be thoughtful about what is the best fit for them and explore each option. I do not know his girls well enough to have a clear opinion about either of them. My sense from my limited interactions is that both may be a bit above average students, but not a cc: standout. Having said that, I could be wrong.
@threebeans You seem to have a good perspective on this, and must have an idea about the line I am trying to walk here, do you have any thoughts on a good way to explain this well? I think exploring the possibilities is great, but want to nudge him to keep the college option open for his kids and find the best thing for them.
Of course there’s a need for skilled labor, and of course such workers often make more than their college-educated counterparts even in white-collar jobs.
But I have just one word for anyone who advocates union-protected assembly line jobs.
@Much2learn In my experience, high schools tend to only focus on getting kids to college and exploring the trades isn’t emphasized. At my own sons induction into the National Honor Society all they talked about was how these are the kids going on to colleges . . . . and that son in going to a Tech college now for automotive and electromechanical design. It was sort of insulting that they didn’t consider a “smart” kid going to trade school. I digress, I personally think dad is doing the right thing by keeping that pathway open. When you think “trades” also think of all the support positions an experienced tradesman is uniquely qualified for including inside and outside sales, technical support, design, teaching. I know many people who have changed careers within the industry as they have matured and their success is a result of their hands on experience. My opinion would be to just encourage a thorough exploration of both, and not to stigmatize one or the other. She’ll find what is right for her.
"I applaud Germany’s system where tradespeople are looked upon in a positive light. In other words, don’t simply follow whichever path is more socially acceptable, follow your talent… "
Agree - the German/Swiss system is fascinating. They help kids get matched into trades early and treat them with the same respect as university bound students. There is no stigma.