College vs university (2 to 2.5 hrs drive due to traffic)

Parent Cafe
141

Albert69, I see where you are coming from. I’m sorry that you went through this. Your story is sad.

There is a line from the movie Braveheart where Mel Gibson says in response to an overture to speak to the nobles that his lieutenants clearly sniff out as a ruse.

Wallace: “Do you know what happens if we don’t try?”

One of his Lieutenants: “No what?”

Wallace: “Nothing”

OK, so maybe this is a poor example because Wallace ends up losing his head, but his death does effect the changes he wanted.

Nonetheless, for the OP do you know what happens if she does nothing?

Nothing happens.

Even your parents took the risk in trying because they had hope and at least wanted to effect change. You are suggesting based on your single experience that OP shouldn’t even try. That she should give up all hope. That she risks making herself vulnerable and having her adversaries stick it to her.

Therapy doesn’t help all of the time, but if it didn’t help some people, do you think therapy would even exist?

Don’t you think that’s it’s worth a shot?

Do you think that your parents regret trying to reconcile with your sister through therapy?

142

^ Not the therapy, but I know that they are glad they didn’t try to pay for the expensive college. There was no way that would have happened. But right now, with all of the friction, do you really think opening the door for a pile of debt is the right answer? Stress only makes people act more indignant, and having to stress over where the money is coming from is bound to create more problems than it solves. Continuing to give the son false hope also will create problems. The OP should try to talk to her son and husband and make sense of things. But not with tens of thousands of dollar of debt staring them in the eye.

143

There is certainly tremendous risk in depositing, but there is certainty in a poor outcome from not depositing.

It’s good that your parents were in sync. That’s not the case here and it really complicates things for OP.

S has tuned her out. Cost tomorrow is only $500. Cost in May is cost of summer course. If H was going to defy her and put the deposit down against her will he would have and could have done so. I suspect that he is moving over to her side before S.

Any debt would come later and in chunks. Still time to get everybody on the same page and try to work through consensus.

All efforts may fail. It may get worse.

There are no great options, I’m just suggesting what I think is the least bad.

144

At my daughter’s CC graduation, one of the speakers was a non-traditional age student graduating with honors who had enrolled at that CC after her children had graduated from college. More than 20 years before, when she had graduated from high school, she was all set to go to college out of state. She paid the deposit. She packed all of her things. Her dad drove her all the way to that college, several hours away. He pulled up to the campus, and when she was ready to get out of the car, he told her that she wasn’t going to enroll there after all. He turned the car around and drove her home.

That speaker did not go into details about her father’s reasoning. Perhaps is was some crazed power play. Perhaps he didn’t know how to tell her that the family couldn’t afford that college. Perhaps he drove her there, took one look at the kids on campus or the location or whatever and just could not will himself to leave her there. No matter what his reasons, his action was wrong.

Paying a deposit at a college or university that one of the parents absolutely opposes, unless it is the student’s own money and the student has landed a true free-ride for all four years, is just plain wrong. The OP’s kid will think that he is going, and the parents will continue fighting until they finally either give in to the kid’s desire, or the dad finally accepts that the money just isn’t there.

The $600 they save by not depositing can go to pay the out-of-pocket expenses of family counseling instead.

145

Enrollment deposit cost for a CSU appears to be around $150-250. At least one of the ones I checked appears to have no enrollment deposit fee, though I can’t tell for sure without an account.

I am also a bit confused about the $20K/year cost or loan we are talking about. On the other thread guiltymom said “The cost per year is ~$23K for tuition and housing only.” About 10 of the 23 CSUs have a Cost of Attendance that rounds to $23K. The others mostly round to $22K or $24K. This includes tuition, fees, books and supplies, housing, food, transportation, and misc personal. Costs are typically about the same for on- or off-campus, and most CSUs are primarily commuter schools.

http://www.calstate.edu/sas/costofattendance/

Without including housing, food, and misc personal, the cost is typically about $10K, and that includes $1000 to $1500 for transportation.

146

OP also has not indicated that any in the family has brought up the idea of the student contributing up to $10,000 or so with a federal direct loan and work. This, along with less spending at home with the student at school, may bring the cost to the parents to a doable level. But the family must get out of the trenches and take a serious look at the numbers to see if this can be done.

147

Another consideration…if this kid does fail or drop a significant portion of his courses, he will not meet satisfactory academic progress…and his eligibility for any need based aid he does receive would end until he satisfies the SAP requirement wherever he is enrolled.

148

Also, is this the only option that the kid has for college, besides community college? Are there no other schools that he applied to?

149

@gultymom, do you work outside the home? Is dad the only one bringing money in? Does the son have a job?

How much longer would he have to work and put off retirement to pay for this school?

150

@albert69 Given the likely SATs that the student has (probably a max of 1000 CR+M given remedial courses needed in math and English) and the low cost of community college and CSUs in California, either community college or a CSU are the correct options to consider for this kid. I suppose other CSUs could have been applied to, but those would be further away.

To my knowledge, there aren’t many low-cost privates that take remedial students in California. Perhaps there are some religious colleges in that category, but the ones I know about are expensive.

I think some financial aid deadlines may have been missed, but of course, I don’t know the family’s finances.

151

What is the point of stringing this kid along? His family can’t afford the school. Next week and next month, they still won’t be able to afford the school. A new driver commuting four hours a day is completely out of the question. There is a time to say No, we are not doing this. That time has arrived. If he is going to have a tantrum when he gets told No, that is all the more reason to believe he is not mature enough to go away to school.

152

I think this decision should have been made earlier and commuting is not a good option. However given the fact that things are still up in the air I would have to agree with @ClassicRockerDad and I would put down the deposit. Then they need to sit down and really work the numbers to see if there is any way at all that they can make this work. If they can’t afford it with student loans, work study, maybe pell grants?. Then in order to cement it into the son that commuting is not an option I would have him drive to the college everyday for say 3 weeks straight during rush hours so that he can see for himself how it’s not going to work.

153

This thread has wander everywhere. So lets go back to the original question.

How many of us as adults would be motivated to do the homework for five courses after a full day of work and a 2 hour commute home? Now how many could do it for five years non-stop? This is what is being considered. Many adults do this to pay the bills and have a roof over our heads and food to eat which is a very strong motivator. How long will any student in this situation survive the grind after the initial fun of college wears off?

While the above suggestion is good, the impact of the commute is very different after hours of class and being up late studying.

What this students fails to understand is how much that commute will impact the fun part of college? Will he want to go back at nights to join a club or go out? Will he really get the so call “college experience” he is hoping for?

Of all the comments trying for a delay admission or CC makes the most sense.

154

Michigangeorgia…if the family was Pell Grant eligible, this would already BE in their financial aid package. Ditto the Calgrant if eligible (and application, FAFSA and GPA verification were done on time). Work study is also a federally funded need based award. The student can ask for this…but if no need…usually not eligible for WS.

The mom was clear from the start that the costs was not affordable. It sounds like the son concocted the commuting option in the hopes that the parents would see this as a money saving option.

This kid has some choices to make. Does he want a relationship with his parents? Is he really willing to walk because college costs are unaffordable at his “dream school”?

Can this student purchase his own car, pay for all the upkeep and insurance…and parking costs…and gas? Or is he expecting his parents to pick up the tab for the car/commuting option.

The way I’m reading this…the kid knows commuting is ridiculous, and the hope was his mom would throw in the towel and pay for room/board at the dream school.

There is no perfect solution here. The family needs some professional help. This college choice issue is just one issue with child rearing that the mom says has been ongoing disagreement. Maybe this is the straw that will break the camels back and they will get some family counseling.

All that aside, who is going to pay the bills for this dream school? The family is already on the hook for the summer costs…which most students do not have to pay. If he is really in a remedial situation, graduation in four years is not likely.

What are the family resources for the undergrad years…all of them…to support this kid?

And I still say…the commute is too long, and that would be the deal breaker here. Too far! Not happening. And certainly would not be happening in a car we (the parents) own, insure, maintain, and put gas into.

Sometimes part of being a family is recognizing when something is unaffordable for the FAMILY. In this situation, it sounds like it’s all about the kid.

155

According to the OP this student does not have his license yet. A brand new driver commuting over an hour twice a day is a recipe for disaster.

156

You can study at school and come back when the traffic is dying down. I wouldn’t plan it that far along for this student. I would take one step at a time. Lots of students change their minds in college.

157

The commuting is insane. They can’t afford the school. No deposit should be paid because that’s just pushing out the inevitable and giving false hope. Especially for a kid that won’t even show his mom his SAT scores and needs remedial school.

Does anyone know what school it is we’re talking about?

158

It would be better to list the miles that he needs to commute.

159

@albert69 Not exactly, because there are plenty of Cal States where the Cost of Attendance is about $23K, there are 3 community colleges within easy distance, and traffic is a major consideration. The list of the most likely CSUs is probably:

Cal State East Bay
San Jose State*
Cal State Northridge
Cal State Los Angeles
Cal State Dominguez Hills
Cal State Long Beach*
Cal State Pomona
Cal Sate Fullerton
Cal State San Bernardino
Cal State San Marcos
Cal State San Diego*

  • Less likely because they tend to be more selective in most majors.

I’m not an expert on where in California the traffic is worst, but generally the Bay Area and in LA/San Diego would qualify as having bad traffic.

I think she mentioned forensics and anthropology as being possible majors. I’d suppose all CSUs have anthropology. I don’t know about forensics. Forensics at different CSUs is going to be slanted at criminal justice, chemistry, biology, or anthropology–and so the difficulty of the major would vary.

160

The student doesn’t have a driver’s license yet…and there is a possible plan to get this, buy him a car, insure him (male new drivers without a good student discount are very costly) and all this is going to happen in time for him to make this commute for the summer sessions?

Sorry, but this doesn’t wash with me…at all.