<p>So I have come to the conclusion that the Collegeboard is wrong and should not be "in charge" of admissions to college. This is NOT solely based on the recent score errors.. the recent score errors just underscore the need to reduce the control of the Collegeboard.
I think that the collegeboard initially meant good by developing the SAT back in the 30's or whatever to test students. It was developed by psychologists and was never really meant for college admissions. Over time, college admissions got very selective so colleges decided to use a test to figure out who was the smartest, basically. Rather than create their own, they took a tried and proven "modified IQ test" and asked students to take it. Again, this seems like a fair/reasonable idea.
The problem is, today's society is obsessed with college admissions. I myself am included in that group. Is it really fair to have the rest of our lives determined, in part, by a test developed by a private company?? There is NO fair way to determine if the test is valid. While I have no particular opinion on this, there IS a big issue regarding racism.. in the sense that poorer families (more often black than white) may not "conclude" that a CUP goes on a SAUCER, since saucers are usually asssociated with classier places. Many tests, especially the Verbal part (and the AP LIT/LANG exam) are based in large part on questions which are SUBJECTIVE!! The question designers create questions which reflect an opinion. When you ask "what did the author mean here" It is an opinion question.. yes you can explain WHY you took a phrase a certain way.. but to say a student is WRONG for taking a phrase a certain way just isn't right. These question designers are able to put whatever question they want on the exam. If it is Black History month, and Coretta scott King has just died, maybe they will put a passage on the civil rights movement (ACT, Feb. edition, Reading section) (yes i know ACT is not by collegeboard, but ACT is unjust also). They are able to say what they think we should know, rather than actually being tested on what we should know. In addition, the collegeboard is "NOT RESPONSIBLE" for actions. With these scoring errors, WE CANNOT SUE, because they are a LLC (limited liability corp.). If they are going to have complete authority over these tests, then they must be liable when they mess up! And to say "non profit" is ridiculous.. $82 for an AP exam and $41.50 for an SAT? The SAT takes longer, has more questions, and also has an essay.. how can an AP exam cost TWICE as much for LESS work involved with grading?? I would really like to know what kind of cars the people at the college board drive.
Most people are going to say there is no good solution. However I feel there is. Rather than have each school develop a test for each major/college, the government needs to take over this role. If Bush, and all of our other leaders are claiming that the US is falling behind other nations in math and science, isn't it up to the gov't to increase this? By taking over the standardized test business, the government will be able to better protect citizens (us highschoolers!) from unfair practices and/or prices. The government also will then have a direct role in guiding what we need to learn. Of course we are immediately going to get people asking how we can afford this, when we can't fund the city schools. The solution is very easy. People will still have to pay for these tests. A much less amount, but enough to let the gov't break even (after all, the gov't isn't in the business of making money).
Another problem we have is that AP classes, and a lot of regular classes in general, are taught around the test. By doing this, we aren't necessarily learning what we need to know (for life), but rather we are learning HOW to answer well on the test. We spend several days discussing how to decide if you should leave the question blank, answer, guess, etc. We spend several days on the types of written response questions you'll see, and how to best answer them in as short of time.. this is a waste. The teachers have to be "certified" by the college board to instruct AP courses.. and the highest courses available at the school are AP courses! there aren't Advanced honors or anything, its all AP classes, therefore the college board dictates what we learn.
I have one final question. Isn't it technically unconstitutional for a Federally funded STATE university or college to decide who is admitted and who is not, based on a private company's test?
In conclusion, we really need to get rid of the collegeboard and ACT. Their practices are arguably unfair in regard to questions, payment, and liability. I read a post earlier that said within a few weeks there will be lawsuits against collegeboard because of headlines like "Student commits suicide over rejection from Harvard based on incorrect SAT score" and other things. This might sound ridiculous.. but it is a possibility. I would be highly surprised if no lawsuits came. The problem is, they won't hold up in court because you cannot sue a non profit company. This wasn't written by a disgruntled student who received a low score on one of the tests, or got rejected from a college either. I'm a junior, so I haven't even applied yet, and I did well on the tests, but after looking at some of the things that go on, I've decided it's wrong for admissions to be based on a private company, and if the government came out with a test that I didn't score so well on.. so be it. At least it would be fair.</p>
<p>i agree.....I also think that they should base admissions off state examinations</p>
<p>society is not obsessed with college admissions. cc is far far far from normal. i know plenty of people with 1300+ old SATs who only applied to a couple schools, mostly seond or 3rd tier state schools..</p>
<p>I'm sure the op would do a much better job creating a test for students or managing the admissions process of millions of students.</p>
<p>Get over it and stop your whining.</p>
<p>going to play devil's sdvocate a little ...</p>
<p>
[quote]
So I have come to the conclusion that the Collegeboard is wrong and should not be "in charge" of admissions to college.
[/quote]
The collegeboard is not "in charge" of admissions ... it is a private company and all the universities and colleges are free to use or not use the collegeboard's services as they see fit. There is a very easy solution to collegeboard being "in charge" ... the free market ... if someone comes up with a better tool to try to highlight the potential of applicants the schools would jump on the alternative ... it would have to quite a bit better so schools would go through the pain of the switch but they would. Given the market share of the collegecoard I'd guess no one has been able to develop an obviously better system ... or the collegeboard would be fading away (for example, in 1970 probably 90% of the cars sold in the US were GM, Ford, Chrsyler, or Dodge .... seemed like unbreakable oligopoly ... and then they got smoked by non-US companies).</p>
<p>
[quote]
in the sense that poorer families (more often black than white) may not "conclude" that a CUP goes on a SAUCER, since saucers are usually asssociated with classier places.
[/quote]
stats quirk ... it is true a MUCH higher percentage of african american families are black ... it is also true there are MANY-MANY more poor whites than african americans (there are 6-7 times as many whites as african americans so the poverty rate of african americans would have to be 6-7 times worse to have the same number of poor african americans as whites)</p>
<p>Deep Thoughts (by Jack Handey)</p>
<p>Instead of having "answers" on a math test, they should just call them "impressions," and if you got a different "impression," so what, can't we all be brothers?</p>
<p>Incidently, you can sue a non-profit and it often happens with non-profit hospitals. The only entities that you can not sue for legal reasons are governments.</p>
<p>CB doesn't run admissions. Colleges chose to use CB's services. The ACT is the competitor.</p>
<p>In terms of affirmative action, being a URM is worth about 200 points on the SAT in terms of admissions and that would seem to compensate for any supposed inequities in the Verbal test.</p>
<p>The disturbing thing about the OP to me is the trust in the government that it displays. The government is terribly inefficient and I can't think of anything that it does better than private industry. Perhaps instead of suing CB over your SAT scores being low, you can try to sue the government for having someone killed by friendly fire in Iraq.</p>
<p>That actually is a really good essay. You should try to see if NY Times or some other newspapers can publish it for you. That'd make a much greater influence.</p>
<p>Anyone know what the College Board's revenues are like?</p>
<p>100000000000000000000000000000000000000 trillion British Pounds</p>
<p>That's right.. ALL THE TEA!!!</p>
<p>CB is the closest thing to a common admissions test.....it is not a perfect system....nothing really is.....but it works for most of the people........the main goal is to score how dumb or smart a person really is (again, it doesn't apply to all)</p>
<p>And I HEARD THAT HARVARD STARTED TAKING THESE standardized tests thing....coz they were sick of getting all those overly-rich-spoilt kids from all over the world....</p>
<p>I would have to agree on one thing.....CB cannot be LLC....they have to assume responsibility for their own actions.........</p>
<p>In a way, they declaring themselves as LLC's shows that even they aren't confident in their system!!!....they expect mistakes to happen!</p>
<p>You can sue a non-profit or an LLC.</p>
<p>Scoring exams costs very little. Costs are due to test development and administration. It is expected that small AP exams would cost more than the main SAT tests.</p>
<p>I won't comment about your opinions of the SATs, but I am very sure the government would do a worse job. There are quite a exams offered by federal and local governments. They are almost always very poor and out of date. </p>
<p>We do know that the US education system is not doing well with science and technical education. The government is not taking steps to correct this problem and in fact is making additional cuts in order to pay for the costs of Iraq and Afganistan. Business seems content to outsource jobs and also import foreign-trained workers. The Bush administration seems to support whatever business leaders want.</p>
<p>Since the OP has decided to post this twice, I will answer twice:</p>
<p>don't see how having the government take over the collegeboard's job will improve anything. Nor do I think they have the right to, the collegeboard developed the SAT, which I believe still is and should be an important part of college admisisons, and while far from perfect have done a fair job of running it and improving it (I think the addition of the essay last year was an important improvement).</p>
<p>I see no reason to believe why the government would do a better job of managing the SAT than a private company does. I think sticking the SAT in the large web that is the federal bureaucracy could only make things much more complicated and much worse. Also, right now students applying to many colleges have the choice between the SAT and ACT. If the collegeboard continues to have problems with scores, more and more students will switch over to the ACT. This competition would be ruined by a government takeover. There will be no one to blame for problems and nowhere to turn, if you think suing the collegeboard is difficult, try fighting the government.</p>
<p>A teacher cannot teach for the SAT as it is impossible to know what will be on it. You mention the a passage on Civil Rights in the ACT. That passage did not test knowledge of the Civil Rights Movement but reading comprehension and everything test-takers needed to know about the movement could have been found in the passage. As for teaching for Advanced Placement exams, that is the entire point of AP classes. The reason colleges accept AP credit or place people out of classes through AP's is because they know that the students have learned the equivalent of the into college course in that subject. AP tests are designed to make sure students around the country are learning the same thing so colleges do not have to worry whether they are awarding credit to the right candidates. If a student wants to take a class that is not taught by the AP curriculum, he/she is free to take the non-AP version of the course.</p>
<p>Only problem I have with Collegeboard is the prices they charge for their tests. They are pretty much exploiting kids, but they know the kids are forced to take them if they want to go to college. They're making bank.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I have one final question. Isn't it technically unconstitutional for a Federally funded STATE university or college to decide who is admitted and who is not, based on a private company's test?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Your legal theory being what precisely? Just which constitutional provision is being violated and what precedent do you have supporting your theory? Does your theory mean that state colleges can't look at the grades given by private high schools either?</p>
<p>Offhand, I can't think of what would be the violation, technical or otherwise.</p>
<p>People rightwing is just trying to maintain an opinion here about this issue. I rather think that it's a very good thing to think critically about the pros and cons concerning the current system, since that's where the catalysts of reform take place, and finding and pointing out the flaws of the current system isn't always something that needs to be "ridiculed" about to such an extent. </p>
<p>Yes, I do agree that the collegeboard should execute some major internal reforms/improvements to its current standards, especially making the testing process more transparent, open, and concise.</p>
<p>Thank you. I proposed the government involvement as a (possible) solution, not "my solution and thats the only way it will work"
It's kinda like some ppl are saying that "well the other way will suck too.. so scrap the idea" that is what the framers of the constitution said also, and they took years to solve the problem and make everyone happy.</p>
<p>The problem is your entire argument is based off erroneous logic.</p>
<p>Collegeboard is fine.</p>
<p>Now go and lobby China for improved human rights.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
"the Collegeboard is wrong and should not be "in charge" of admissions to college"
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>It isn't.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
I think that the collegeboard initially meant good by developing the SAT back in the 30's or whatever to test students. It was developed by psychologists and was never really meant for college admissions.
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>Wrong. Standardized tests were created in the late 19th century by elite colleges who wanted more objective and meritocratic information for admissions decisions than student's social class and ability to pay. The SAT and related tests grew out of this movement. While there certainly were problems (some of the early IQ tests, related but not the same as the SAT, were linked to the eugenics movement), the overall effect was to allow the best colleges to take the brightest students regardless of where they went to high school.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
There is NO fair way to determine if the test is valid.
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>Sure there is. There is a correlation of about 0.50 between SAT scores and college grades. The correlation for high school grades is barely higher, around 0.55. That a four-hour test reveals almost as much as four years of school is impressive. </p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
[The disadvantaged] may not "conclude" that a CUP goes on a SAUCER, since saucers are usually asssociated with classier places
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>Not true for decades. The infamous "yacht is to boat" analogies haven't figured on the test since the 1970's. All questions are analyzed to see if one particular ethnic or other group does particularly well or poorly. Biased questions aren't used. </p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
Many tests, especially the Verbal part (and the AP LIT/LANG exam) are based in large part on questions which are SUBJECTIVE!!
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>Other than free-response questions (and even those are graded on very specific rubrics) this is false. Take pretty much any CR question, post it on CC and almost everyone will either give the right answer or soon be persuaded by those who do. Questions are not written in a vacuum - the ETS does some rather extensive evaluating before hand to avoid ambiguity.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
If it is Black History month, and Coretta scott King has just died, maybe they will put a passage on the civil rights movement (ACT, Feb. edition, Reading section) (yes i know ACT is not by collegeboard, but ACT is unjust also).
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>That's preposterous. The tests are written months or years in advance. </p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
And to say "non profit" is ridiculous.. $82 for an AP exam and $41.50 for an SAT? The SAT takes longer, has more questions, and also has an essay.. how can an AP exam cost TWICE as much for LESS work involved with grading??
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>Clearly you don't know what "non-profit" means. A non-profit corporation does not pass on profits to shareholders. The College Board doesn't. "Not-for-profit" doesn't mean "Not-for-revenue."</p>
<p>As for the pricing, keep in mind that a) fee waivers are available to the poor. b) Vastly more people take the SATI than the various AP tests, so there are economies of scale involved and c) AP tests have much more substantial free-response portions that must be graded by those intimately familar with the subject material.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
Rather than have each school develop a test for each major/college, the government needs to take over this role.
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>We live, for better or for worse, in a country with a federalist system of government, so Washington's powers in education are very limited. This would be totally unconsitutional. </p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
The teachers have to be "certified" by the college board to instruct AP courses.. and the highest courses available at the school are AP courses! there aren't Advanced honors or anything, its all AP classes, therefore the college board dictates what we learn
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>The College Board defines a standard curriculum so that high schools can offer equivalents to common introductory college survey courses. Since colleges are confident that AP students that score well have mastered the material they can grant credit with confidence.I don't really see what's wrong with that. And the highest courses are not necessarily AP - for example at my public school you can take math and computer science courses that go well beyond the AP material, as well as seminar-type English courses as intense as any AP. </p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
Isn't it technically unconstitutional for a Federally funded STATE university or college to decide who is admitted and who is not, based on a private company's test?
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>Nope. So long as it doesn't discriminate on the basis of something like race or religion a public university can admit people however it pleases. By your logic how can a state school consider a student's grades at a private high school when determining admission?</p>