<p>@NewHope33: All applicants pay the fee, not just the accepted ones, right? The Harvard Crimson reports that “nearly 35,000 students applied for admission to Harvard College’s class of 2015”. That’s quite a bit more than $1.2M.</p>
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<p>That’s a distinction without a difference. Yes, the enrollment management companies do the actual legwork – just like an advertising agency shoots the actual commercial and buys the network time. But it’s still directed by the college, who comes up with a strategy that the enrollment mgt company puts into place. The colleges know exactly how they compensate the enrollment mgt companies and what they consider proof of results.</p>
<p>pg, there is marketing/branding, and there is marketing/branding…
You miss my point, which is that BLANKET UNTARGETED marketing does not seem appropriate at the top colleges, and is not being practiced by the top BS.</p>
<p>Targeted and educational branding and marketing is fine, as long as it is not misleading, with goals to raise money or rankings.</p>
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<p>Right. Choate, Andover, etc. really <em>don’t</em> give as much of a **** about finding that hidden gem halfway across the nation to the extent that Harvard does. Which is their prerogative, of course – they are entitled to keep their schools 100% New England old-money WASP if they so desire – but let’s not make a virtue out of it.</p>
<p>I don’t know if the elite schools buy mailing lists from CTY/TIP/CTD attendees et al … it would certainly be a smart move to do so, as those are obviously mailing lists of bright students with parents who have the capacity to pay for expensive summer programs. But do you understand why <em>only</em> targeting lists like that would be problematic? You’d just be rewarding the already-privileged. </p>
<p>And again, put yourself in the shoes of East Whatever State; you’re really trying to improve the caliber of your student body, maybe you’re going to offer scholarships to bright students, etc. Why <em>wouldn’t</em> you buy mailing lists of smart kids and target them? What could possibly be wrong with increasing awareness of your brand? Why is it any different if it’s Harvard et al? I think some of you seem to project your we-all-know-all-the-elite-schools to those in different areas / regions / socioeconomic statuses. If Harvard thinks it’s worth blanketing the mailboxes of all PSAT scores over X to find that one hidden gem in rural Alabama who never heard of Harvard, what do you care? If East Whatever State U thinks it’s worth blanketing the mailboxes of all PSAT scores over X in the surrounding states, what do you care?</p>
<p>I haven’t seen anything that suggests that anything any of these schools are doing is misleading. The naivete of people who don’t understand that a computer filled in “Dear Johnny” on the cover letter doesn’t mean that the mailing was misleading. I’d like to hear one single instance of a mailing that explicitly promised admittance.</p>
<p>Here’s an interesting article from a decade ago, that I think still describes the current process, on how Harvard markets itself. Obviously they are going to consider the targeted mailings to be a key part of their strategy if it ends up reaching 70% of the students they eventually enroll.</p>
<p>[Online</a> Extra: How Harvard Gets its Best and Brightest](<a href=“Bloomberg - Are you a robot?”>Bloomberg - Are you a robot?)</p>
<p>Excerpt:</p>
<p>“The first phase begins in the spring, when Harvard mails letters to a staggering 70,000-or-so high school juniors—all with stellar test scores—suggesting they consider applying to America’s best-known college. Harvard buys their names from the College Board (which administers the Scholastic Aptitude Test, or SAT) and ACT Inc. (which administers the college-admission test that’s more popular in the Midwest). This “search list” is obviously a very rough cut. Yet Fitzsimmons is confident he will find many diamonds here since every year some 70% of the students who ultimately attend Harvard are on this list.”</p>
<p>PG said "Choate, Andover, etc. really <em>don’t</em> give as much of a **** about finding that hidden gem halfway across the nation to the extent that Harvard does. "</p>
<p>Yes, they do. Have you had any personal experience with these schools??? These top BS have big enough endowments to support missions for diversity. Two of them have 1200 students each, as well. They accomplish much more social engineering/polishing of hidden gems/interesting mixes (a la the Ivies) than claimed by your highly prejudiced and inflammatory statement:</p>
<p>“Which is their prerogative, of course – they are entitled to keep their schools 100%
New England old-money WASP if they so desire – but let’s not make a virtue out of it.”</p>
<p>p.s. Your kids are happy, why the anger? why all the profanity?</p>
<p>Well, when that Dear Johny is printed not on $3-a-ream Staples all purpose copy paper but on $3-a-piece linen paper, wouldn’t you say, it may come across a bit different? As if that isn’t enough, it is accompanied by sincere looking application forms. Why would anyone send application forms when everyone on this planet applies on line unless they really really want you?</p>
<p>How would H know where to target for their audience? I am sure they can figure it out. BMW figures it out all the time, Orecks knows where not to advertise. To our H, it should be a piece of cake.</p>
<p>I grew up in a small, poor, and rural town where everyone went to the instate publics or one of the many small and cheap privates. Fall of senior year, I was all set to go to an instate public without taking a visit anywhere. But then I started receiving lots of really great looking color marketing materials from schools in all sorts of exotic places…Chicago, Boston, Tulsa, etc. I decided to give some of them a shot…</p>
<p>4 and half years later I graduated from one of them.</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone here is “inside” the process whereby any great college decides how to market and to whom, what it costs to market and what the cost of managing 1-3 admissions rounds (ED, RD, plus transfers) - and all that annual travel- really is. Nor, whether college presidents are bonused for, for heaven’s sake, dropping the admit % a fraction. And so on.</p>
<p>The mailing don’t just go to top scorers. D2 was not a top scorer but put down pre-med. D1 who skipped that box didn’t get the elite mailings. D1’s scores beat D2’s.</p>
<p>And, we’re completely skipping the issue that much of college spending is market-driven, with little do do with their educational mission- prettier dorm rooms, better food, digital access in every corner, comfy lounges, Does USNWR still rate “best food?”</p>
<p>I think this outrage over colleges sending out spam mail is completely misdirected. It is not the responsibility of private universities to educate you on the difference between an ad and a commitment, or to make sure your feelings aren’t hurt by random reminders of your inability to get into Harvard.</p>
<p>In any case, if you’re dumb enough to assume that receiving a glossy brochure/blank application form from Stanford’s admissions office = guaranteed acceptance, then you clearly need to be taught a lesson about expectations and reality, and that lesson would cost you considerably more than $75 later on in life.</p>
<p>“How would H know where to target for their audience?”
One more time. The ENROLLMENT MANAGEMENT companies that HARVARD, and every other top college hire, are the one who figure out who to send the letters to, based on multiple demographics, including Collegeboard test results, past enrollment data, etc, etc, etc. Harvard’s admission dept does not have the manpower to do the research themselves</p>
<p>. [Intelliworks</a> - CRM for Higher Education](<a href=“http://www.intelliworks.com/static/overcoming_data_silos_to_boost_enrollment_v2?_kk=enrollment%20management&_kt=e491a15c-1488-43b9-aaa5-65ddb2b9a8ae&gclid=CMrp34_ZmKwCFQ40hwodkiVjOQ]Intelliworks”>http://www.intelliworks.com/static/overcoming_data_silos_to_boost_enrollment_v2?_kk=enrollment%20management&_kt=e491a15c-1488-43b9-aaa5-65ddb2b9a8ae&gclid=CMrp34_ZmKwCFQ40hwodkiVjOQ)</p>
<p>[Perceptive</a> Software for Higher Education](<a href=“http://discover.perceptivesoftware.com/forms/DocManagement_HigherEd?gclid=CIj8_J3ZmKwCFccbQgod0G-bOA]Perceptive”>http://discover.perceptivesoftware.com/forms/DocManagement_HigherEd?gclid=CIj8_J3ZmKwCFccbQgod0G-bOA)</p>
<p>[EMAS</a> Pro Software - Enrollment Management Software for Colleges and Universities](<a href=“http://www.emaspro.com/]EMAS”>http://www.emaspro.com/)</p>
<p>“Why would anyone send application forms when everyone on this planet applies on line unless they really really want you?” </p>
<p>Oh please!! the EM company wants YOU to want to APPLY, and if spending a few more pennies for pretty paper or a copy of the application form does the trick, and results in more applications from naive students or parent who think that the college they represent “really wants me!!”, then that’s the kind of mailing you’ll get.</p>
<p>My school never even sent me an email about applying, let alone physical mail. I hope that means we don’t play the game. That was before we switched to the common app though, so it may be different now.</p>
<p>I received mail from good schools (Harvey Mudd, Brown, etc.) and schools that had no shot of getting me to apply (local Ohio colleges, random other colleges, etc.). I guess most colleges do it. </p>
<p>Some did a really good job though. For example, Drexel sent me mail that said I could apply using their “quick app.” No essay, no fee, took like 10 minutes. They also showed me pictures of their new Honors Dorms. My god, they were like hotel suites. I got an acceptance letter in 2 weeks but never even thought about attending.</p>
<p>Many colleges do send out offers for “quick apps.” Clearly their goal is to beef up the application numbers! (not just increase “awareness” of the school) Usually these are colleges in the lower part of the top 50 and want to move up in the rankings and in prestige by lowering their acceptance rate.</p>
<p>GC at Ds’ high schools cautioned students NOT to user the “quick apps”- they said it is very difficult to follow up with the materials from them (transcript, etc.)</p>
<p>I question the whole premise of this–that a significant portion of college marketing mail is directed to students with little chance of being admitted. That’s not my experience–what I’ve observed is that for a kid with good scores, the vast, vast majority of college mail is from schools that would be very happy to admit that kid–but are unlikely to get many high stats kids to apply. Just today, a big slick promo package for Transylvania University came for my daughter. Not a bad school, but there’s really no reason she’d be interested in going there. They’re hoping, I suspect, to get some applications from kids like her–I very much doubt they’ll reject those kids if they apply.</p>
<p>Let me just “throw this in the mix” since it befuddled me, and still does.
Sophmore twins take the ACT while attending a well regarded private HS that sends 20-40 kids /yr to Fordham.
Twin 1 gets a 24 soon begins receiving invitations via snailmail & email to apply, accelerated decision, etc. (3.0 GPA)
Twin 2 gets a 31, never hears a peep from Fordham.(3.5 GPA)</p>
<p>We visit during Presidents Open House(forget the exact name)</p>
<p>Both apply and I anticipate #1 to be rejected, #2 to be accepted.</p>
<p>Both are waitlisted. Not a big deal, neither disappointed. This simply perplexed the hell outta me!</p>
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<p>Well, of course. So if you think that they should target based on who has attended in the <em>past</em> - don’t you think you’re going to get a lot of targeting of the zip codes around elite boarding schools and affluent public schools? I mean, certainly the return on investment our hypothetical elite school gets is higher in Greenwich, CT or Short Hills, NJ than in East Bumble, AL - the Greenwich kids have parents who will encourage elite applications, whereas who knows about the East Bumble kids. So therefore, are you saying our hypothetical elite school shouldn’t waste any mail on East Bumble, AL because they might wind up sending to a bunch of smart kids who are never going to consider an elite school in the first place? That’s precisely what elite schools want to avoid.</p>
<p>How, precisely, <em>should</em> they find these hidden gems?</p>
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<p>I agree completely. I found far more of the college mail was from universities that were looking to expand their footprint by targeting smart kids outside their immediate geographic area. </p>
<p>And I guess I question why it’s really any morally or ethically different when East Whatever State U sends a packet to Hunt’s kid versus when an elite school does. I think it’s goofy to pretend that elite schools have some obligation to be “hands-off” reaching out to smart kids in a way that East Whatever State doesn’t.</p>
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<p>Just a thought - maybe they’d do even better in that dimension if they sent out direct mail to the parents of smart eighth graders!<br>
BTW - I’m not angry at all, just curious!</p>
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<p>They don’t really-really-want YOU (as in Johnny Smith of 1234 Main Street). They want another application. Isn’t this pretty obvious? For the life of me, I don’t get why any of you draw any distinction between this and any other junk mail from anyone else. They’re trying to draw your attention - read if you’re interested, dump it if you’re not. What’s the big deal?</p>