<p>Spectrum 2: UoChicago is guilty as charged, following Washington U’s example of encouraging “unlikely-candidate” students’ applications to decrease official published acceptance rate. Many friends went to UoC in 70s and 80s, and almost all remark that they “couldn’t get accepted now” due to the “heightened market awareness” among achiever kids nationwide. In the 80s, a B average and an ACT 28 would get you in. It was (and is) a grim academic-grinder school suitable for a certain achiever kid. But note that TAs teach undergraduates at a far higher rate than our Midwest elite LACs.</p>
<p>IJD,
That is targeted to kids who they think have a good chance of getting in. And the revelation of where they learned of the recipient of the letter is good practice.</p>
<p>
Guilty of what? Getting better applicants to apply and to matriculate? It would be guilty, it seems to me, if it were rejecting a lot more applicants, but ending up with a student body similar to what it had before.</p>
<p>So now the kids with the B average and an ACT 28 go somewhere else. Are there no schools looking to fill the market niche and educate these kids?</p>
<p>CRD,
I am missing your point.
Are you saying that some schools should target these kids in their markeing programs, and not kids with higher stats???
Are you saying it is unfair to these kids that more and more of the spaces at some colleges are going to higher stat kids?
Are you saying that raising the stats of accepted kids via targeted marketing is unfair?</p>
<p>Basically, if you hit the currently active thread about"was is easier for you to get in than it is for your kids?", you will see that the demographics are a large cause of this trend. Check it out.</p>
<p>How would/do you feel if your child with X stats was receiving letters from schools with stats at her level and below???</p>
<p>“One purpose behind all the adcom travel is to know communities and high schools- to meet GCs and learn about special kids. It’s not as simple as zip code or scores.”</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Of course these trips are missing a lot of great kids. </p>
<p>Let me give you an example, here in the greater Chicago area - which isn’t rural Alabama or Nebraska or whatever. The elite schools travel here - and give one presentation downtown and maybe one or two presentations in the northern suburbs / North Shore. They might or might not cover the northwest suburbs, the western suburbs, or the southern suburbs - which will still have plenty of smart students and parents who are either able to pay the price tag or willing to go out on a limb on financial aid. They’ll know about the New Triers and Highland Parks and so forth … They’ll know about the elite privates like Parker, Latin and the U of C Lab Schools … They’ll know about the magnets … But they aren’t going to necessarily go to some of the schools that are more off the beaten path from their perspective (including my kids’ hs). Indeed, I don’t know that any elite schools visit there - even though we are simply in a suburb, not off in the hinterlands. </p>
<p>And I’m still in a major metro area where I could (and did) schlep my kids an hour away to attend a presentation or have an interview. Now think about how many high schools you think they visit in central Missouri, or far northern Minnesota, or Nebraska. Of course smart kids are missed <em>all the time</em>, so that’s where direct mail comes in. </p>
<p>I really think some of you are so into the elite-colleges-are-everywhere culture (and I understand it! I’m from the east!) that you really aren’t hearing that a lot of these schools just aren’t on radar screens elsewhere, and therefore it is worth some schools sending out marketing materials to increase their awareness. Even in thickly populated metropolitan areas.</p>
<p>I do not think that narrowly, at all.
The issue here is the volume and style of the marketing. And the possibility that it is somewhat predatory and insincere.</p>
<p>As to being centric or provincial, well, stop assuming and presuming yourself.</p>
<p>CC is a place to learn, share, explain, not preach or dictate.</p>
<p>
Didn’t say that. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Definitely didn’t say that. What existed at Chicago 30 years ago, exists somewhere else now. The B average 28 ACT students needs to find it. Some literature might help. </p>
<p>
Didn’t say that. </p>
<p>
Agree. I would have had to find somewhere else to go besides MIT. I would and still be just fine. </p>
<p>
She does, and we have recycling every two weeks. She also gets mailings from schools she may be interested in that she might not have heard of, and fills in the postcards and sends them back. Frankly, I think she likes the attention.</p>
<p>So what was your point, then, CRM??</p>
<p>"Need Blind Admission at Andover
Andover Admits Students Without Regard To A Family’s Ability To Pay Tuition
Andover offers one of the most comprehensive and generous financial aid programs in the country for low-, middle- and upper-middle-income families.
Andover meets 100% of a family’s demonstrated need.
No predetermined gross income is used to determine financial aid scholarships.
Andover generously determines awards based on a comprehensive analysis of need, including all variables that contribute to a family’s financial situation. In addition to using the School and Student Service for Financial Aid Report of Family Contribution, Andover’s financial aid process deals with all families on a confidential, individual and personal basis.
Andover calculates family need on the full cost of attendance, including tuition, room and board, travel, books, technology, insurance and other expenses.
Andover awards financial aid scholarship grants. No student loans are administered.
All financial aid scholarships are awarded through the generosity of alumni, parents, and friends of the Academy and are guaranteed through endowed scholarship funds.
In 2011-2012, 46% of the student body receives financial aid; 13% receive full scholarships. The average grant for boarding students is $34,900 and the average grant for day students is $23,100.
Andover’s broad socio-economic diversity is a hallmark of the Academy as displayed in the inclusive distribution of financial aid grants to low-, middle- and upper- middle income families. "</p>
<p>This reads much like a page from an elite college.</p>
<p>
This was true of my daughter up to a point. Indeed, she didn’t check the box for mail when she took the PSAT as a sophomore, and was a bit jealous of friends who started getting mail then. She was glad to get the mail after the junior PSAT. But a couple of months ago, the novelty wore off, and we recycle most of the mail without even showing it to her. She also has a gazillion e-mails.</p>
<p>She never got a t-shirt, though. What is she, chopped liver?</p>
<p>“Phillips Academy, a residential secondary school, seeks students of intelligence and integrity from diverse cultural, racial, socioeconomic and geographic backgrounds.”</p>
<p>Times have changed. These schools are now made up of diverse classes, not unlike those of the elite collges.</p>
<p>But how do those boarding schools market? Neither of my kids ever received any mail from any of them. We live in a DC suburb with a lot of families who might really be interested.</p>
<p>On Andover’s web-site from Admissions Head, talking about importance of FIT, OPENNESS, VALUES:
"Try as it might, a school cannot be all things to all students. The most successful schools are clear about what they do well and what they do not hold as priorities. The good news is that once you open your mind to the possibility of attending a boarding school and remove geographic constraints from your search, you can find the right match for you. Try to find the time to learn about not only what the school offers in terms of academics, arts, and athletics but also whom it strives to serve and which values it holds dear.
Founded during the Revolutionary War to educate youth from every quarter to lead the new democracy, Andover holds a special place in the field of American education. Its history will tell you a great deal about its values. Its 1778 Constitution established the Academys institutional precepts of Youth from Every Quarter, Non Sibi (Not for Self), Knowledge and Goodness, and the idea that the outcome of an Andover education extends beyond personal gain to Usefulness to Mankind. These inspiring thoughts set the Academy on a path to leadership in American education. The timeline in our Admission Catalog describes the many educational initiatives of the Academy.
Certainly the founding of the school amidst the trying days of the Revolutionary War inspired its values. However, there are other factors that influenced the Academys mission. As you may be gathering, Phillips Academy is not your typical school. In fact its founding as an academy distinguishes it from boarding schools. The academies were often among the first schools in New England. They had strong local support and community participation. They typically attracted more diverse populations than the first boarding schools, which were founded about a century later, and were built in rural areas away from the outside influence of townspeople. Boarding schools were also often religiously affiliated. As one of the first academies in the country, Phillips served students from the local area as well as students who came from afar. Its location in a small New England town and its close proximity to Boston provided a constant flow of people and ideas through its campus.
The intentional openness of the Phillips Academy community began when its first board of trustees decided to provide need-based scholarships to the Academys first students, a rare viewpoint at that time but which reflected the Academys democratic values. The theme of firsts continues throughout Andovers history. Richard T. Greener, the Academys first African-American graduate went on to become Harvard Universitys first Black graduate. Andover was the first secondary school in the nation to develop exchange programs with the Peoples Republic of China and the former Soviet Union. These and other examples are detailed in the catalog timeline.
What do these values and ideas mean for you as a candidate for Andover? A good match for Phillips Academy is a student who shares these values. "</p>
<p>IMO statements by the colleges like this are needed up front and center to help students self-select.</p>
<p>To help students self-select? Performersmom, there are likely tons of smart kids all over the country who would be perfect candidates for Andover (and other elite boarding schools) who simply have no clue whatsoever that those places exist or are options, or if they are aware that they exist, believe they are only for the Bush family and the like. If Andover decided to target, let’s say, eighth graders in affluent zip codes in major metropolitan areas outside the northeast by sending direct mail, would there be anything wrong with that? Now, they might decide not to because it doesn’t fit their image, or whatever, but I wouldn’t see anything morally or ethically wrong with it at all, even if they wound up not accepting all the applicants received as a result.</p>
<p>I guess I’m just not getting what is so morally or ethically wrong about a school marketing itself by buying lists of students in a reasonable ballpark and sending them materials. Whether that’s Transylvania or East Whatever U trying to find some A students outside of its backyard, or Harvard trying to find the gems in West Virginia - I don’t really see any difference at all.</p>
<p>Hunt, You are going around in circles, too!!!
Look, the thread’s issue is with the high volume of seemingly nonsensical marketing by colleges, in many cases without regard to the fit (stats, interests…) of the recipients of the letters.
My point is that the elite BS do succeed in creating diverse classes with less voluminous and more targeted marketing. They are certainly not marketing to regions as a whole.
They do prospie trips to off beat areas that have alums and current students. As per posts here, they do send materials to kids on high performance (CTY, etc.) lists (and reveal their sources!)
It seems that people want it both ways- “don’t leave me out!!” and “wow, this is crazy, predatory, geared to goals that are not seemly for a non-progit institution of higher learning, etc. etc.”</p>
<p>My original intention was to say that the BS have a pretty moderate style of marketing, and it does work pretty well. Importantly, they do have fewer spaces to fill. And they are not getting to everyone. </p>
<p>But (at you here PG), one could argue that marketing is even MORE crucial to BS, as the whole concept of going away to school has to be dealt with- kind of like missionaries.</p>
<p>Isn’t this kind of the same thing?
[Harvard</a> College Admissions § Applying: Freshman Application Process](<a href=“http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/apply/tips/decisions.html]Harvard”>http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/apply/tips/decisions.html)</p>
<p>It seems to me that what all of these selective institutions are a bit cagy about is what kind of stats are essentially disqualifying. They don’t really say, for example, that you shouldn’t apply if your SAT scores aren’t at least x. They may imply it, I guess.</p>
<p>
Well, do they, really? How’s their geographical diversity? I don’t know a single kid from my area–which includes a lot of kids who could go there–that has gone to any of them. I guess their classes are strong enough for their purposes, but their marketing wouldn’t cut it for Harvard, which wants to get that genius rancher kid from Idaho in addition to the coastal kids.</p>
<p>I find it a bit odd to offer up Andover as the model for how to go about this.</p>
<h1>157 That is a whole other discussion, IMO, Hunt.</h1>
<p>Research, for those who are curious, easily reveals ranges of stats for those recently admitted.
But I argue that a very friendly personalized letter on fancy stationery with an app attached (and no explanation of what exactly the marketing search consists of, a la " We know no one is your area has attended X college, but we thought it would be a good fit for you due to your XXXX experience. Please have a look at our web-site to look if we would be a good fit. If you have any questions, please come to out info session or email us…)) might just over-rule these things in some HS students’ minds, esp with schools that are not as well known as Harvard.</p>
<p>Yes, I guess it is too much of a stretch. If I can find data on geographical diversity of Andover, I shall share it.</p>