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<p>They certainly do use the term. But differentiate it from “federal EFC”.</p>
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<p>Yes, unfortunately. The issue is that, when universities ask for the CSS Profile, they weigh different things differently, and sometimes even make changes if they feel that what you reported isn’t accurate. </p>
<p>UNC uses loans (including the parent plus) to meet the EFC with middle class families, at least they did several years ago. We were offered no grant money and a small music scholarship. My son ended up attending an LAC instead (and we are instate for UNC). The LAC really wanted him and offered to come in under UNC’s offer. Expenses ended up being 2k a year less (room, board, tuition).</p>
<p>Not meaning to get too personal hornet…but just how middle class are you? When my daughter was accepted in state two years ago for the class of 2016 she received a small amount to grant money despite a income right at six figures… She ultimately decided to go elsewhere - but certainly not due to their financial aid which I found to be quite fair.</p>
<p>It is actually way more complicated than the original article states as some of these “full-need” schools are need-aware in admissions decisions. It is easy to promise to meet the full financial need of admitted students, if you do not admit students who need much. There are a huge number of variations. There are this year only six schools who both practice need-blind admissions and promise to meet full need for ALL of their students: Amherst, Dartford, Harvard, MIT, Princeton and Yale. That’s it. There are other schools like Stanford or Williams, who are need-blind/full-need for US students but not internationals.</p>
<p>There is a wikipedia article that maintains lists, but as with any wikipedia source, YMMV: <a href=“Need-blind admission - Wikipedia”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Need-blind_admission</a></p>
<p>UVA’s package was far from our EFC. A comparable private university was $20,000 less.</p>
<p>Do NOT throw out the article. Yes, the schools get to determine what your financial need is, but this is not a way for them to pull the wool over your eyes. A college would get a VERY bad reputation very quickly if they claimed they meet full financial need and then asked a family with $100,000 in income to take a loan for $40,000 each year. Main thing is to first get accepted by these mostly elite colleges. Then, MANY of them use the Net Price Calculator provided by CollegeBoard,org, and in the case of two colleges on that list of 62 that I contacted, they use it very closely when determining what they will offer. Finally, the main difference between most of those schools is that some will meet full financial need WITHOUT including ANY loans at all – student or parent (Colby College is one of those), and some WILL include that. And, for those that DO include student loans, the loan amount is USUALLY pretty reasonable…from $2,000 to $5000 per year in the several that I have researched when looking at colleges for my high school daughter. As the average student loan debt for ALL college students today is over $27,000, if you can get a degree from one of those elite colleges with debt of $20,000 or LESS, then that’s something to consider. Finally, just because you are eligible for a loan doesn’t mean you have to take one. Most of the schools want the student to provide between $2,000 and $2,500 each year from working. This can be done with a work-study job alone, and then if the student is able to find some summer employment (no guarantee) then they can add to that (however, this will increase the amount the university will want from the family the next year, but it’s not exactly a wash).</p>
<p>If you have $400,000 in assets, that is something that could reasonably make you have to pay a whole lot more.</p>
<p>Completely agree with you about USC. I have a have a senior there now that will graduate this coming spring. USC financial aid has been completely useless. Waist deep in Parent Plus loans. </p>
<p>Penn is on the list as meeting full need, and I agree they were very generous. There were no loans added to my D’s aid package, leaving us with a total cost of about $19K after a $44K grant (we had just over $120k in income.) We requested the stafford loans and they added them, leaving us to cover about $14k annually. Had to borrow that, but still fair.</p>
<p>“Meet full need,” “demonstrated need,” and “% receiving financial aid” are all School-jargon that sound good if you don’t look at it carefully, as so many here know and have posted before. It is not plain English, the way Joe the Electrician would use it.
This is what we gathered after two kids’college-quests and a lot of self-education on these boards and elsewhere, and what I hope everyone should know, as a starting point:
1.Loans don’t meet needs, and increase costs. Any loans. (Obviously some are better than others, but should never be called “meeting need.”)
2.Profile algorithms from private schools and even FAFSA are far from accurate and assessing need, though FAFSA is far closer to doing so.
3.Some schools make “Freshmen offers” that are good for year one only. It is stated somewhere in the fine print, not in the initial letter of award.
It’s one of the least honest games in town today, right behind politics.
No one should feel entitled to aid. But we should expect transparency, honesty and plain English from schools who later go on to teach our kids courses in Ethics.</p>
<p>It is perfectly reasonable for any college to expect a family to take out the maximum allowed amounts of federal stafford (and perkins as available) undergrad loans for each year. The student has 10 years to finish paying off those loans, and the feds pay the interest on most of those loans while the student is a full time undergrad or grad student. I just did the calculations for $20,000 of federally subsidized loans and it came out to less than $250 a month for the student. That may mean they have to drive a used car instead of a new car.</p>
<p>It also is perfectly reasonable for a college to expect a student to earn $3,000 a year from either summer work, part-time work or work study. </p>
<p>The problem comes when a college expects a family to take out large PLUS loans. There has been some recent research about how large amounts of PLUS loans and co-signed private student loans are making it impossible for parents to ever retire. In some cases, grandparents were conned into co-signing for private loans. The amount of college loan debt held by seniors has multiplied in the last decade.</p>
<p>Burgermeister - UVa’s aid offer to my out of state son was equal to several private universities that also promised to meet 100% of need. Of course, there are a few unusually rich colleges (often with small student bodies) who can afford to be more generous. Some private universities also offer large amounts of merit aid, which can skew the comparison.</p>
<p>UVa’s main recent change was to require low income students to also take out federal loans. Middle class students were always expected to take out federal loans. In addition, UVa’s aid offers for out of state students now includes $4k of work study, which is high. Fortunately, my son had good summer jobs and never needed to do the work study during the school year. </p>
<p>@OHMomof2 Northeastern decides for you what your financial aid “need” is & was 25,000 off compared to other schools that were willing to meet my daughter’s need. School wouldn’t budge, so guess where she decided to not attend.</p>
<p>“Of the 1,137 colleges and universities that submitted financial need data to U.S. News, just 62 of them cover full need.”</p>
<p>Note that the list includes only the few schools that bother to respond to the survey. There were 2,870 four-year schools in the U.S. in 2010-11 (latest available data at <a href=“Fast Facts: Educational institutions (84)”>Fast Facts: Educational institutions (84)).</p>
<p>I really take issue with the use of the phrase “full need” to describe any college that is using the CSS Profile, its own forms, or any other independent methodology to determine need… They are offering need-based aid, and most could truthfully say that they use a consistent, internal formula to calculate need – but they are not meeting “full need” or “100% need” or anything like that. I’d like to see that sort of language restricted to colleges that use the FAFSA EFC as the sole determinant of “need” --and I don’t think there are any that promise to meet the FAFSA-determined EFC. </p>
<p>If there were, then there would be a standard that we could all rely on, because when we complete the FAFSA, we are also given the number that applies to us. When a family fills out the CSS Profile, it’s anyone’s guess what the college is doing with those numbers. </p>
<p>I am glad that my daughter’s college gave us enough financial aid so that we only had to borrow about $40K to get my d. through college- but every year I was expected to come up with at least $10K over and above the FAFSA EFC, even when the college was happily accepting federal Pell dollars that came to them only because of the FAFSA number. </p>
<p>The house I live in is not an asset that can be liquidated for college, nor was whatever money my ex-husband earned but did not share. FAFSA EFC seemed fair and manageable – no “full need” college came even close to offering financial aid based on that number. </p>
<p>@calmom - Please go to the thread here: alk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1686904-choosing-full-ride-vs-selective-college-p12.html
And tell them what you posted on this thread. I know your situation is reality, but some people keep clinging to the mirage of EFC calculators on college websites.</p>
<p>My son is a UPenn and they cover almost everything for us…I have no complaints…but know that unless a noncustodial parent isn’t known or involvement poses a risk to the student they will include that parent’s income even if they do not help in any way. After year 2 they stopped including his income. The other thing that they don’t tell you is that the only funding that can offset parent contribution is loans…outside scholarships reduce first workstudy then institutional aid. </p>
<p>My daughter is a Gustavus Adolphus in Minnesota…they are not on the list but they are covering about 95% and they are taking very good care of my youngest. </p>
<p>You have to do your research and ask questions. </p>
<p>This is really a good post. When will colleges become transparent. I am amazed at how schools use institutional “scholarships” to attract my son, but really they should call them what they are discounts!</p>
<p>Yes, 1966, the system is set up at many private colleges so that the kids who just barely get admitted and who come from relatively affluent families pay full sticker price, along with the international students. Almost everyone else gets some form of discount, which can average 30 to 50% at many colleges. Merit aid also becomes an ego boost for many students and parents. Some need-based aid is actually hidden as merit aid. </p>
<p>When a private college asks to know the names of other colleges where you have applied, it can sometimes impact aid offers. The goal is usually to list several private colleges that they consider prime competitors and some in-state publics, but not too many or too few.</p>