<p>My suggestion: Purdue. University of Wis. Rice, and Univ of Mo Rolla.</p>
<p>I visited Ohio Northern today for junior visit day. I was surprised to find they had teams win gold and silver medals at the national competition for robotics. They have a professor that won a major IEEE award for robotics with a team from NASA. ONU also offers some major merit aid based on a combination of grades and SATs/ACTs.</p>
<p>At this point I see that we have over a thousand views on this thread…my D must not be the only one in this situation. So here is the list of colleges so far, with a number in parens if it has been suggested more than once:</p>
<p>Bradley
Bucknell
Case Western (5)
U of Cincinnatti
Clarkson (2)
Colorado School of Mines
U of Dayton (2)
Drexel (2)
U of Evansville
IIT
UIUC (3)
U of Hartford
Kettering (2)
Lehigh
Marquette
Miami of Ohio
Michigan (2)
Michigan Tech (2)
Missouri S & T (Rolla) (6)
New Mexico Tech
Ohio Northern (2)
Ohio State
Perdue (4)
Rice
Rose-Hulman (7)
Rochester (2)
RPI (4)
USC
Santa Calra (2)
Smith
Stevens Inst. (2)
St Louis U
Texas Tech
U of Toledo
U of Tulsa
U of Wisconsin (5)
WPI (4)</p>
<p>This list has become a subject of kitchen table discussion for our family. Thank you all for contributing!</p>
<p>I think we have a general sense of how good these schools are, but I was intrigued that Case and perhaps one or two more have admission rules that would make then strong safeties (almost a sure thing) for a high-scoring applicant like my D.</p>
<p>If anyone wants to reiterate their view of which schools might be safeties for my D, with her odd situation of great test scores and so-so grades in a tough h.s. curriculum, for engineering, that would be useful for us, and probably for others as well.</p>
<p>Cal Poly SLO?
Add another vote for Colorado School of Mines and University of Tulsa (could be free for NMF). New Mexico Tech is another very economical choice.</p>
<p>I say Case is a safety for her.</p>
<p>I am glad you explained your perception of why the dissonance between GPA and scores. Home schooling is what I got, plus perhaps a bit of slacker-ness in such things as caring about turning in assignments on time.</p>
<p>Apologies if others have addressed my thoughts already; I have only skimmed this really interesting thread.</p>
<p>The slackerness is a common trait among boys, less common among girls, I think. The home-schooling is an interesting insight. I think it’s important for many schools that her application - somehow - prevent admissions committees from putting her in the Reject pile as an underachiever/true slacker. Superstar scores, which she has, but mediocre GPA can be a damning combination at certain schools. </p>
<p>OTOH, as others have mentioned, there are schools where the scores and her gender plus interest in EE/ME will more than do the trick.</p>
<p>I have no direct experience on this, but I recall a few posters who mentioned that using College Confidential’s Stats Eval (or whatever it’s called) was really valuable in crafting their lists of reach/match/safety. One or two have come back to post how accurately cc’s people performed. I believe this service is quite inexpensive (under $100?). Seems to me that might be quite valuable for the one-of-a-kind situation you have here.</p>
<p>Good luck and I hope you will keep us posted as things go along.</p>
<p>PS, my list of school suggestions is mostly already covered, but since you appear to be tabulating, I’ll chime in with: Purdue, St. Louis U (safe?), Santa Clara U, Miami of Ohio (safe?) and add (though these are in the east) Hofstra (safe?), Fairleigh Dickinson, (safe?) UNH, Fairfield U, Trinity College (CT), Lafayette (if she will consider a school in the 2000-3000 student range (I think).</p>
<p>Cooper Union in New York city, it has only 500 students in th engineering school (1000 total), and does well in the USNWR rankings.</p>
<p>Any interest in a women’s college? I have heard that Smith has a very good engineering program for women. Here is a link to an article that a Smith dad sent to me. </p>
<p>[How</a> to reengineer an engineering major at a women’s college](<a href=“How to reengineer an engineering major at a women's college - CSMonitor.com”>How to reengineer an engineering major at a women's college - CSMonitor.com)</p>
<p>Your DD has a simply fabulous ACT score (35!), strong SATs that will likely get stronger if she tests again. She should also be planning on a set of SAT IIs this spring that will tie into whatever AP courses she is taking. The SAT II on Math is a must-take for more competitive schools.
The GPA has a good back story - home schooled thru middle school, which may not have built the “turn-it-in-on-time” clock punch skills that she is now learning. Then what sounded like three different high schools in three years. Those transitions are enough to shoot anyone’s GPA. Be sure she tells both stories in her application package. And she needs to show an ongoing upward trend in her grades. </p>
<p>A couple thoughts:
- Think about getting out of the midwest, and going west or east. Someone that adds regional diversity, plus helps with the chromosome problem in the engineering population, can really be attractive to a school that nneds more people from more places, and more women.
- But don’t place much hope on CA state schools as an out of stater - the few slots they have available to those from out of state are simply ridiculously competitive.
- The focus on smaller schools is healthy, and likely wise for someone still making the transition to the more structured world of school. She could get lost at a big state school. One other point: Smaller schools are more likely to read her application and get the back story; bigger schools might just toss it aside when the see the GPA. She needs to tell her story.</p>
<p>A suggestion I have not seen mentioned here:
- The Olin College of Engineering, in Natick, MA is new, spectacular, small, just accredited, and (drumroll) so far, tuition free. A spectacular value for those that get in, and it is getting great reviews for it’s new approaches to teaching engineering.
- Plus it’s west coast predecessor-in-news-ways-to-teach engineering: Harvey Mudd, in Claremont, CA. It is private, not cheap, but they have a sex balance problem and can give quite encouraging scholarships. </p>
<p>I would second the votes for some of the other east coast schools here:
- Smith, in Northampton, MA - recently started engineering program, all women but affiliated with four other schools that exchanges students, classes, parties (and likely other things that parents don’t want to know).
- Worcester Tech - small, pure engineering and science, and close-ish to Boston, the Hub of the Universe (at least for students)
- RPI, in Troy, NY - mid-sized, needs female chromosomes badly.
- Trinity in Hartford, CT - is a liberal arts college that also has a respected engineering program. No sex balance problem overall, but likely in need of women engineering candidates.</p>
<p>But she could also move up just a bit in size to some of the mid-sized private universities, such as:
- Brown - really interesting undergrad engineering program, and looking for women. Providence has gotten to be a quite nice college town.
- Duke - the Pratt School of engineering has a separate admissions track, and they need women. It would be on the stretch end, but she has the ACT score to compete there. </p>
<p>Good luck - this will be interesting, and fun (esp. when it’s over).</p>
<p>I would add Michigan State to your list. Acceptance at Rice is highly unlikely and Michigan is doubtful.</p>
<p>High school performance is a better predictor of success in college than test scores, and this is especially true in engineering programs. If she ends up going to Bucknell, Case, Lehigh or RPI she may find herself drowning in work, trying to get through the semester. IMHO she would be better off at schools with less intensive programs such as Cincinatti, Dayton, Drexel, Ohio Northern, or Toledo, for example, and even at these schools the engineering program is no cakewalk. If she does well in her first and second years she could then apply to transfer to a more rigorous program.</p>
<p>In general, engineering students have their GPA drop from the GPA they earned in high school due to the demanding curriculum. If your D is not prepared for a full load of demanding classes (and the first two years of engineering are demanding), she will become discouraged early and college won’t be much fun. Aim a little lower where she can improve her academic skills with a less pressure and then she can evaluate her options. Good luck!</p>
<p>The high ACT - low GPA reminds me a little of myself. My GPA was actually fairly high, but it took no work for me to keep it up. I went to a very selective university and really struggled my first couple of years. It wasn’t that I had bad study habits, I had no study habits! I also had no experience with time management. The large lecture classes (200 people or more) left me feeling disconnected from my classes. Fortunately my freshman dorm was populated with serious students who demonstrated what I needed to be doing, and I gradually figured it out. I would have done much better if I had been at a LAC where the focus was on undergraduate teaching; I would have been more motivated to keep up in small classes where I was expected to participate, and I would have had a lot more guidance from the professors. </p>
<p>I didn’t think to mention Olin because it is so ridiculously selective, but you never know, your daughter’s nontraditional educational background might just appeal to them. My son and I visited there, and I was struck by how few lectures the students receive - mostly they are expected to go off and learn the material on their own, then come to class ready to apply it. I asked one of our tour guides whether it was difficult to adjust from the highly programmed classes of hs to the very unstructured learning environment of Olin. She said that it had been a difficult adjustment for her (she, like me, had never had to do any hw in hs), but that everyone at Olin had trouble making the adjustment, so they received a lot of support from the faculty and from each other. No one was allowed to fall between the cracks. Olin is really small, but I would think that some of the other LAC’s or small tech schools would be similarly supportive.</p>
<p>I’ll be attending the University of Tulsa in the fall. In this part of the country, it is well known for its engineering program. [The</a> University of Tulsa, founded 1894](<a href=“http://www.utulsa.edu%5DThe”>http://www.utulsa.edu)</p>
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<p>This is very important. DD (the engineering major) is struggling to keep a 3.0 GPA in college. She’s doing it…but it’s a lot of work. She seldom got a B in high school so this was a huge change for her.</p>
<p>OTOH…if the OPs daughter is really interested in the engineering coursework, this could be motivating. Some kids don’t have good high school GPAs because they don’t do well in the required courses that are not of high interest to them. Of course, if this student goes to a school with a large core course requirement, she will have to work in those courses too. But most engineering courses of study are quite intensive…and perhaps math and science are this gal’s forte.</p>
<p>I agree with thumper on both points. It occurred to me that OPdaughter’s GPA might be suffering because the material or busywork assignments (at least as she sees them) might not interest her. So that might bode well for higher college GPA.</p>
<p>But I also echo thumper’s other point. My S who never had a B in hs; maybe a rare B+/A- (his high school graded on a 100 point scale; never had below a 90) also struggled/struggles mightily for his (current) 3.25 GPA. And he has seen C+ final grades; worse on individual tests/exams/quizzes.</p>
<p>I figure there have to be some kids in Engineering, in the more selective schools, who are getting straight A’s. But mostly I hear what thumper and others have said here. And that has also been my son’s experience.</p>
<p>So the OP daughter should visit possible schools, sit in on classes and try to catch the vibe of how intense the academic atmosphere is among the Engineering kids. Make sure it suits her.</p>
<p>I know that my S had 18+ credit loads for several semesters, compared with 13-15 being more typical for non-Engineering students</p>
<p>We agree with the posts above; engineering is a hard course of study. DW and I are both engineers, and the first child is in engineering school right now.</p>
<p>We are trying to find the “right” school where she can succeed, not just one into which she can be admitted. Fortunately, she will arrive at college with two years of AP Calculus under her belt (and a very good understanding of this body of knowledge), plus AP level understanding of Physics and Chemistry (and English and History), plus Statistics and Introductory Computer Programming from our local community college. This set of classes, taught in high school, should prepare her very well for the first year of engineering at most colleges.</p>
<p>Right now we are still trying to agree which schools are a match, and which are safeties. As many on CC have noticed, parents have a tendency to think that particular colleges are safeties, when they are really matches, and to see others as matches when they are really reach schools.</p>
<p>Opinions are welcome!</p>
<p>reasonabledad, It is always difficult, imo, to calibrate schools as reach/match/safety. If a kid wa-a-a-y undershoots, well then that gives an obvious safety. If s/he wa-a-a-y overshoots, obvious reach. Everywhere else, the lines are fine and difficult to draw even with a more “conventional” GPA/score match.</p>
<p>What might help, if you have the info, is: (1)knowing a little about the grade distribution at her hs. What are the highest uw/w GPA’s at her school? (2)What is her rank (or rough rank if the school doesn’t rank or hasn’t yet)? (3)What type of admissions results has the school had - do they have Naviance or a spreadsheet showing admission results from their school by GPA and by score?(4) Is there a pattern to her grades - eg, lower in humanities/arts, higher in math/science?</p>
<p>Apologies if you’ve already posted some of this info; I haven’t noticed it, but might have overlooked.</p>
<p>It’s really hard to figure out which are safety/matches/reaches. With her scores and GPA, it will be really hard to determine which is which. On that list, she has schools that she should be able to say are safeties. Other than that, I would assume that all the other schools are reachy matches/reaches. My D just went through this and her GPA and test scores were more even and we could not determine any matches, only safeties and reaches. </p>
<p>What you D might want to do now is decide what kind of school she is most interested in. I have two kids apply to engineering and they had very different ideas of what they wanted in a school. My son was very interested in his major, it was very important and he applied to schools that were good in his major. He applies to larger state schools but was more interested in techie school. He liked that everyone had a lot of work and was in the same boat. He wanted a school where he was at the top of admitted students and he was not as concerned about the male/female ratio.</p>
<p>My D on the other hand wanted a medium sized school with a more balanced male/female ratio and had good food. She assumed that she’ll be fine at any school and applies to more reaches than my S (who applied to no reach schools). She’s going to a school that meets all of her criteria and was a reach for her.</p>
<p>You’ve received a lot of great suggestions. They are all over the board. I think that more important is does she want a engineering techie school or a school that is more balanced in majors and girls. My D did find out that at a school that was more balanced, if there are less engineering majors, assume that there will be less girl engineers. She wanted a school where she would find more girl engineers.</p>
<p>As I’m sure you know, between 15 and 20% of people who major in engineering are women (some schools are higher but they tend to be very selective). Of those 20%, you find many of those women major in biomed, chemical, or enviroment (up to 50%, I’ve read). My D who wants to major in electrical or mechancial, finds after you divide up and the biomeds and chem E’s, there are very few girls in her majors. It’s something for your D to consider when looking at schools.</p>
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<p>There are a number of members on this thread willing to provide advice to help you identify appropriate schools for you to consider for your D. But we need to know more about why her GPA is so low given her test scores. You state that she has two years of AP Calculus, but AB is a subset, and a major portion, of BC. Colleges will only count one for credit. At my D’s high school students are not permitted to take AB one year and BC another…it is the same course with the addition of a section on series and one other integration technique, if I recall correctly. Your comments imply that she received a 4 or 5 on each of these two tests. If so, that will help.</p>
<p>What do you mean by “AP level understanding of…” I take it this was self study without timed AP tests? If so, that’s not going to make much of an impression on AdComs. What AP tests has she registered to take in the first two weeks of May?</p>
<p>jmmom asked some interesting questions, but some seem less than relevant given that your 11th grade D is in her third high school. For example, what would class rank tell us about your D since many of her grades were earned at other schools? But her question about your D’s performance in various classes may be helpful.</p>
<p>The only issue I have read concerning her low GPA is your frustration with her forgetting to turn in homework. Having identified that issue, have her grades improved during her junior year? Is she making an effort to earn A’s? Does she understand the importance of pulling her grades up this year as far as college admissions is concerned? *I just went back and read that her UW GPA through her sophomore year is 2.9 and you expect her to earn a 3.2 this year, which might bring her cumulative GPA up to a 3.0. It seems that she has other issues that make her a solid B student when she may have the abilities to be a solid A student. </p>
<p>Good luck to her on her AP tests in May!</p>