Colleges for the "Brilliant Underachiever"?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Obviously, since we’re all brilliant over-achievers, we don’t have any direct experience. :wink: But yes, I think many colleges do have antennae out for that diamond in the rough who is, perhaps, maturing a bit late, or is just on the verge of discovering his passion, or who might be overlooked by a more demanding admissions department. </p>

<p>Some schools seem to be set up to help these kinds of students. When D was looking at schools, we noticed when we visited that some schools had more “checks and balances” - emphasis on checks - that reminded us more of high school than college. Places where students were called when skipping class, for instance. A lot more hand-holding. (Allegheny and St. Olaf are two that come to mind.) These schools would be perfect for certain brilliant under-achievers who perhaps are lacking the intrinsic motivation to get things done.</p>

<p>Guess we’re back to fit, where most CC discussions end up.</p>

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<p>I think the colleges that “remind us more of high school than college” would be deadly for “brilliant underachievers”. I believe it is often the unwillingness to put up with such “busywork” that gets these students labeled “underachievers”. They may fully understand the topic, be the top scoring student on the final exam, easily make the 5 on the AP test but refuse to do hours of homework designed to help the “less capable” master the concepts.</p>

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<p>A couple of resources to look at for underachieving students might be “Colleges That Change Lives” and “Cool Colleges: For the Hyper-Intelligent, Self-Directed, Late Blooming, and Just Plain Different.”</p>

<p>For my underachieving S who is more of a hands-on learner than an academic/intellectual learner we looked at schools with experiential learning/co-op opportunities.</p>

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<p>I could write a … Well. Never mind. You know the rest…</p>

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<p>I consider myself the BU type and I just want to put in a personal perspective.
I’ve got a high SAT score and perfect SAT2s with about 5 days of prep for each. My high school grades aren’t bad but they are not so good either because I did not put in much effort on any subject irrespective of my interest.
In the first year of my high school, I got some really motivating teachers and so, I got very good grades. My grades suffered in my 2nd year primarily because of lack of motivation. All through these two years, I had many extracurricular pursuits. I read quite a lot on sciences, and I taught myself some programming, web-designing and what not. On retrospect, these interests were also fuelled by some friends who were themselves BUs.</p>

<p>All this changed when I changed school. Now, I was in a school mostly filled with HOs. The environment here discouraged any intellectual curiosity. Very few teachers were genuinely interesting as well as motivating and I worked quite a lot in their lessons. The other teachers were mostly boring and discouraged any questions. Exams were held only twice a year and my grades, obviously, suffered. I even lost my extracurricular interests, maybe because I was no longer among friends who shared similar interests. I became more of a couch potato only interested in watching TV and playing computer games.
One interesting point is that the BU friend from my first two years of high school also lost all extracurricular interests. He moved to the US and became a regular pot smoker.
I just hope I’ll end up in a college with motivating teachers and an intellectually stimulating atmosphere.:(</p>

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<p>reflectivemom - I agree with you, according to your definition of high school (ie. busywork). What I meant were schools that seemed to offer a lot of babysitting - making sure kids went to class, turned in homework, etc. That was a huge turn-off to me, because I think my kid is more self-motivated and doesn’t need it. But for a kid who does, there are schools out there that offer it. I am obviously referring to the sub-set of underachievers who got low grades because they never got their HW turned in, they slept through class, or were generally disorganized.</p>

<p>And I agree, that there are schools who cater to more creative, or outside-the-box kids, too. That’s why my middle kid chose a school that was all music, few traditional academics. (Fit, again.) He doesn’t qualify as an underachiever, though.</p>

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<p>Washdad, I keep wanting to read your book! I think a similar one is in the process of being written in this house.</p>

<p>newmassdad, have you considered that our public school systems do not serve the truly brilliant well? No one would place an average kid in a classroom 4 grades below and expect them to do well. Yet this is what is routinely done, in effect, to the brilliant kids. There is a very high incidence of underachievement among the very brightest kids. Maybe they aren’t all lazy. Are they really deserving of your vitriol? </p>

<p>I happened to see our school district budget. The ratio of funding for special education to funding for “gifted” programs is 200:1.</p>

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<p>Our state has standardized tests (the “WASL”) that all students must pass to graduate from high school. I was asking a senior, award-winning teacher how I could gather support for our after-school robotics program, and perhaps work with the district to develop a robotics class curiculum, and she told me, “Don’t bother. All the kids who would do robotics will pass the WASL anyway. Why would the district spend money on them?” She actually thought she was doing me a favor by telling me how things work in the public schools here.</p>

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<p>My brilliant underachieving middle son (despite one D on transcript and the rest of his grades are A, B, C soup) is busily preparing for music auditions to be held in the upcoming months. This brilliant child is intellectually curious and has the potential to work very hard at what interests him (which at present includes music and theory). He is well known at high school as a slacker who does not turn in homework but aces most tests that he takes. Thank God he loves music and all that goes with. </p>

<p>His case is a bit more complicated than being bored with curriculum or a label of ADD. Different drummer case and late bloomer more than anything. But he has gained acceptance to some schools with decent music programs and we hope that a good fit will be the end result of auditions. There are so many different kinds of learners out there. It took me a while to learn to respect his strengths and get over the “weakness” of not feeling the need to turn in work (for which he pays the consequence). I believe in him, and I also believe in his peers who are grade robots or gifted coasters who do happen to turn in the work. They will all make their way …the path might be a bit more well marked for some of them.</p>

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<p>WashDad wrote: “I could write a … Well. Never mind. You know the rest…”</p>

<p>How well I do! There is a library in my head of unwritten books.</p>

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<p>Schools for brilliant underachievers:
Bard
Hampshire
Bennington
Sarah Lawrence
Purchase
(Sorry, my NE bias is showing.)
Columbia College, Chicago
New College, FL
Antioch
Naropa</p>

<p>The difficulty that might present itself is that all these schools are somewhat unstructured, and that might present a difficulty.</p>

<p>I would recommend my Community College (and many others, I’m sure) to teach a brilliant, underachieving young person the work ethic needed to survive and then s/he can transfer anyway, even HYPS. I see kids like this, some of whom have already flunked out of college, every day. Many of them succeed, brilliantly.</p>

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<p>Has anyone’s S/D considered co-op programs? I was thinking it might be a good mix of the mind/hands thing and the variety of one semester in school, one semester working. A lot of guys (yes, they were all guys) I knew in HS who fit this category went to Georgia Tech and joined the co-op program.</p>

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<p>Reflectivemom, your post #77 is awesome! I have a BU brother, and the educational system of the 60’s/70’s did not serve him well at all. My good friend has a BU son who is 30 years younger than my brother, and the educational system was no better for him. Friend homeschooled for awhile, but much damage had been done already. I hear a lot of talk about using different strategies for different types of learners, but I find that the BU’s learning style is dismissed. Too often, these learners (yes, the ones I know all seem to be boys) are written off as lazy. I believe we lose many brilliant minds because we fail to cultivate their strengths; the kids just sort of “turn off.” I don’t think we are done “discovering,” so I would like to think our society would see the value in nurturing our future Einsteins (not just our future corporate managers).</p>

<p>I also think hands-on & co-op are good programs for such learners … not all, because one size does not fit all. However, they are options to explore. There are a couple college names I don’t recognize on the list above, and I plan to check them out. Friend described above is trying to help her BU son find a place to transfer (after he takes a few more classes at local CC to establish his work ethic, as a matter of fact, mythmom!). Thanks for the list.</p>

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I could not agree more. If you look at the life and work of the successful “brilliant” researchers, most of it is hard work on the kind of things that the "brilliant underachiever " would find mundane and “boring”.</p>

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<p>Perhaps there is a difference between research & discovery. Research requires a certain discipline; discovery requires a certain creativity. Methinks there is a need for BOTH (and they don’t have to be embodied in the same person)!!</p>

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<p>There is a big difference between hard work and dumb work. Even menial hard work is preferable to dumb work. If you don’t know what dumb work is, check the assignments of your average 8th grader. Ask how would that engage a very bright kid? </p>

<p>Jumping through hoops to get good grades is just that. Some people are willing to do it, some aren’t willing or able, even if they might be able to do higher level work.</p>

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<p>I am extremely hard working. Academics are my life blood. But I can do this only with what I love. I have had to make sure I have never been in an environment that bores me because I would quit the job, drop out of the course. Oh, and my environments have to be fun and well as interesting.</p>

<p>If I tried to work in an office 35 - 40 hours a week, well actually I have tried, but eventually I quit. And I can’t get promotions in my academic job because committee work I can’t do (ugh) is required. So I teach extra courses to make up the $$$ difference. Everyone thinks I’m crazy, but I enjoy my life more this way.</p>

<p>I can, however, read just about anything, address almost any group, and write about just about anything.</p>

<p>Luckily, but carefully selecting my classes I was able to graduate college with a very high GPA and graduate school with a 4.0. And my dissertation was way loads of fun.</p>

<p>Am I an underachiever? Well, I am only an assistant professor. Best friend at work came after me and is a full professor. Has published less, but goes to every school function, serves on every committee.</p>

<p>We have to come to terms with who we are and find environments that allow us to function and maximize our strengths. I don’t understand having disdain for anyone. We all have strengths and weakness. Once in a while a Newton or Darwin comes along, brilliant, inventive, and dogged scientists. However, Newton believed in astrology and Darwin’s father had written him off as a lazy dog. How high does the bar have to be.</p>

<p>And calling people lazy isn’t very helpful. No one wants to be paralyzed and a disappointment to themselves and their families. I really do believe in helping everyone to succeed. Maybe that’s why I teach at a community college.</p>

<p>However, I will say the very hardest students to work with are those who are hard workers but can’t conceptualize and see underlying intellectual ideas. They can memorize, but they can’t think. Their idea of analysis is summary, sometimes tedious summary.</p>

<p>No, I don’t give up on them, either. And I do try and be especially kind when I tell a class that summarizing is a fifth grade skill (I say this to a group, not to an individual who might be hurt by this bluntness.)</p>

<p>Course evaluations always mention the value of learning the difference between summary and analysis and learning to go beyond analysis. This thrills me, and it is harder work than helping the “lazy” to learn some focus and discipline, though though that is also a frequent aim.</p>

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<p>Washdad (quoting teacher): “Don’t bother. All the kids who would do robotics will pass the WASL anyway. Why would the district spend money on them?”</p>

<p>This is the kind of attitude that makes my heart sink. It is the prevailing attitude around here, too, although no one would state it outright.</p>

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<p>kenf1234, I agree with your comments.</p>

<p>Very interesting and perceptive post, mythmom. Your students are fortunate!</p>

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<p>^^Thank you so much.</p>

<p>I also wanted to say that it’s to the social good to not dismiss anyone. Our society is made stronger when we help individuals deal with their barriers.</p>

<p>Those written off as lazy may resort to nonconstructive coping mechanisms. Isn’t it better to find a way to allow them to contribute what they have to give rather than watch them drift and perhaps destroy themselves and take others with them?</p>