<p>Mary Celeste - did you live at home at take college courses, or go away to college at 15? I think it's the going away part that is an issue, not whether or not a 15 year old would do well in college courses. And is Wisconsin's program an early entry thing, or a dual enrollment thing? If the state paid, it sounds like it is dual enrollment. I know many high school kids who have taken college courses under some sort of dual enrollment program, and the results seem to be very good. That's different from say, graduating from high school and going away to college to live in a dorm at a young age, which is what the OP is considering.</p>
<p>token - I got some good hits by googling "early college entrance". Try this one for a nice list of programs intended for high schoolers to go to college. Most of them have age-appropriate supervision and support, and provide a group of same aged-peers having the same college experience (as opposed to a young person "graduating" from high school and becoming a regular college student)
<a href="http://www.earlyentrance.org/index.shtml%5B/url%5D">http://www.earlyentrance.org/index.shtml</a></p>
<p>I also looked up MaryCelest's Youth Options program in Wisconsin. It appears to be a dual enrollment program, allowing high school juniors and seniors (generally age 16-18) to take college courses. But they do not become college students (ie they live at home, the state pays, and they do not have to apply to colleges as a transfer student if they decide at age 18 they want Harvard).</p>
<p>Sorry I came to this thread late...</p>
<p>I found myself nodding in agreement with many of the posts, especially Texas137's. Exeter might be a great option. </p>
<p>Personally,I skipped my senior year of high school (in southern Alabama) and never missed it. I did live at home, but the commute was almost an hour each way and I had to load pulpwood and work in a sawmill...I would have loved to live on campus. :)</p>
<p>Two questions: </p>
<p>First, what has your son said about all of this? Does he show interest in specific colleges or talk about what majors he would pick? </p>
<p>MaryCeleste was happy with decision to go to college early - but she was ready to address these questions.</p>
<p>Second, have you (or your son) contacted some of the colleges of interest about how to use these years - to see if they have recommendations?</p>
<p>Random - actually, I think MaryCeleste took college courses under a dual enrollment program, so presumably lived at home. That would eliminate a lot of the disadvantages being discussed here. A key factor in my comments is that Token homeschools his son. That provides a lot of flexability a typical high school student would not have.</p>
<p>Token, is there a college in your community? Do homeschoolers typically attend classes there? Are his friends talking about going <em>away</em> to college, or simply taking college courses locally? If they are just going to live at home and take courses, they should be able to continue with their local friendships and activities, including those that include your son. Maybe 2 or 3 of them could try to sign up to take at least some of their courses together. Or they could take a distance learning college course together.</p>
<p>My son would have been miserable if he had been forced to attend any of our local high schools. But there are some college courses he would have hated also. A lot of the local CC courses are really dinky and full of the same apathetic classmates one would find in a public high school. The fact that he was not a regular college student meant that we could pick and choose experiences for him. He did no intro college courses. He probably would not have found any of those subjects inherently interesting in either a high school or a college class. He slef studied AP subjects, and did distance learning for intro college courses beyond AP. When he started taking classes, he started with grad level math classes. That meant smart, motivated classmates who wanted to be there, and a minimum of clap-trap.</p>
<p>hi tokenadult... here's my take, if you'd like the p.o.v. of a current High School student. IMO, I've loved going to a public high school. It definately has its disadvantages, and at times I'd like nothing better than to fast forward and head straight off to college, but i honestly believe that sometime down the road I would regret such a decision. I'm from Minnesota as well, and I know a lot of students who've taken advantage of the PSEO option. Some of my friends go PSEO full-time, while others have opted to go part-time. I've heard a ton of mixed feelings about PSEO from students who've since graduated. Some loved it, especially those who may not have had a great experience with high school in 9th and 10th grade. However, most of the people I know feel that they missed out on the high school experience -- especially senior year... most of them wish they would have come back for senior year. While they could still see their friends after school, they often didn't make it back for things like Homecoming, the hustle and bustle before Spring Formal, the school-wide talent show, Powder Puff football games, and other things which, IMO are memorable parts of high school. In my own experience... I was greatly leaning toward PSEO, but changed my mind after much consideration. I decided to fill my schedule with AP's, CIS (college in schools), Senior to Sophomore classes, and similar options. I have still been challenged by academics, without sacrificing my high school experience. I've never questioned my decision. Actually, I'm very happy that I chose not to do PSEO, because if I had, I would have missed out on many opportunities, such as: traveling to Spain with a group from my Spanish class, spending a week in Hawaii with the High School marching band (how often does a kid get to go to Hawaii with all of her friends?), going into 8th grade classrooms to teach students about abstinence and healthy relationships, participating in the school musical production (one of the greatest experiences of my life!), and so much more. If your son hasn't been to a public or even private high school (if he's been homeschooled), I would encourage him to try it... he might enjoy it. He can even do PSEO part-time if he has his heart set on taking some courses in a college setting. That being said, if he has tried high school and disliked it, then PSEO is a GREAT option. I just think that everyone should give High School a chance... IMO you can make what you want of your high school experience, and I've had a great 3 years so far.</p>
<p>i just wanted to add one more thing...
before you enroll your son in a college, I would be sure that college is what he really wants. I have a few friends who would trade high school for early college enrollment if they knew that their parents wanted or expected that from them... even if they really wanted to give high school a try. On the other hand, I also know some girls who have done homeschool all their life, they've never had a desire to go to high school, and one of them is now enrolled in a community college (she lived at home), and now at age 18 will be going on to college for real (by that I mean the residential experience and all), and she couldn't be happier. I guess what I am saying is make sure your son weighs the reasons why he would prefer college to high school or homeschool... he shouldn't feel like he has to go that route just because many of his friends are choosing to go to college early. It sounds like your son has been homeschooled all his life, so if you have any questions about my Minnesota public high school experience, feel free to PM me!</p>
<p>Token - I had another thought on this (then I'll shut up; promise!). Having smart kids go to college at very early ages because they have covered the usual high school curriculum and "that's what's next" is a little like "The Calculus Trap". For a smart kid, being with kids who are doing advanced work because they are also smart is much more stimulating than being with normal kids who are doing advanced work because they are older than you. I don't think you would want your son to do anything that would close off the competition and summer program opportunities that are out there for super-smart high schoolers. He may come home from Mathpath already planning his next 4 summers at Mathcamp, for instance (or PROMYS, or Ross-Young). Then there's the possibility of RSI, Olympiad camps, Clay Research Academy, etc, etc. All of those would be much more stimulating and challenging than a typical college course. If he can do both (by auditing or dual-enrollment), plus great distance learning programs, that's the best of all possibilities. (btw - I've heard good things about the JHU writing program.)</p>
<p>(for anyone interested in "The Calculus Trap", it's here: <a href="http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Resources/AoPS_R_A_Calculus.php%5B/url%5D">http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Resources/AoPS_R_A_Calculus.php</a> )</p>
<p>Hi tokenadult. Things have been busy and I didn't get back to say 'thanks' to all of you that had great suggestions so...thanks again for all of the great math advice. The mathematicians' guide was helpful. </p>
<p>As for your questions, it looks like you've already been given many wise insights. We have had some experience with this, although we do not really homeschool. Notice the 'really'. We were just at a series of district gifted/talented meetings at the end of the school year, listening to many of the parents complaining about what the public schools do not do for their children. My husband periodically make friends with his "if you expect the schools to handle your child's education, you will be disappointed" speech. We have always considered our public school system as a piece of our kid's education and we use it as a resource. (The schools haven't always been thrilled with our approach, but they can't argue with the results.)</p>
<p>Anyway, our oldest, now a college jr, tested very well in the 7th grade and got recruited by a couple of the early entry programs. I still remember, bumpkins that we were, our surprise to find out that she could be done with college by the (scheduled) end of highschool. Wow! She could be in grad school now...maybe even through! Hmmm. I'll never forget her uncle's comment. "Do you want your 13 year old, very social, extremely attractive daughter running around a major city university with a bunch of 22 year old college guys for peers?" That decision took about two seconds to make! The other school of interest was a smaller place in the SE.</p>
<p>Daughter did skip the 8th grade but agreed not to skip at the other end. We knew she would be tempted and at times she was. She wanted the traditional HS experiences, though and she got them in spades. Someone said that there would be more activities to challenge them at the HS level and that certainly is true. We have really had to work the hardest to keep our kids engaged during the middleschool years. We like to call it 'the deep sleep'. Read that term somewhere and I still love it-the schools weren't so fond of it, for some reason.</p>
<p>I don't know what your negative experiences with the public schools were, but even if you wouldn't consider that route for sons HS, what about using the local system as a resource? Our kids have friends that take a class or two, (often music or a particular science course) and sometimes stay for lunch. Some just do an extracurricular or two, like a sport or knowledge bowl. Many that take CC classes return to campus for activities.</p>
<p>I'm with Texas in that working with older kids in advanced classes is not always that rewarding. D took English with 4 years worth of srs. Most of the decent students were just 'grade-grubbers,' no matter what grade they were in or their age. She says many of the college kids are like that too.She had to learn to be responsible for her own education, although we did give her some help at first. Choosing her classes and activites carefully and the teachers/mentors as well became top priority.</p>
<p>Our 13 year old also tested very well on the SATs. She has the benefit of her sister's experience, so we have been dealing with the issue of distance learning and summer activities to keep her engaged. This site has been very illuminating as well! Sometimes it feels like we are just putting another finger in the dam, so to speak...this year it was a "lame" English class, writing opportunities situation. Last year it was science. Earlier, it was a crazy math path. We have added new instruments, dance/acro, math team, drama...whatever keeps her moving, intellectually and otherwise. In the fall she will spend half of her day at the HS. Who knows what's next, but that's what keeps it interesting. I always laugh when people say how well our children do and how easy that must make it for us!</p>
<p>Oldest D has not had classes with her best friend in years. Not since the 7th grade. Mostly they were never at the same school or in the same activities and now they are in different states. LOL! Actually, D was whining because her friend was off to Alaska this summer and I had to remind her that I didn't think anyone would give her any sympathy, as she was headed for Scandinavia! So now they are very far apart, sending each other postcards. I guess my point is (yes, I do eventually get there) that I wouldn't worry about what S's friends are doing. My two best friends have been hours or countries away for most of our lives, starting with early graduation for some. Some will stay in touch wherever they are-some won't.</p>
<p>As for the early admission programs, I found out recently that the one D first heard about hasn't had the best success rate. Many drop outs. I know some kids that want out of HS because they don't do well socially and that doesn't usually seem to work well. My best friend did that and ended up sick and with many incompletes that first year of college. Socially, do you think son is ready for a big jump? I think that may be the biggest question. I don't know, I guess I just like to see them be kids while they still can because they have their whole lives to work. What's the hurry? The school wants to move our 13 year old up, etc but she is 13 and she wants to enjoy being 13. She would miss the jokes at the lunch table. What would your son (and you ) miss? Would it be worth the educational gains, or could you supplement somehow?</p>
<p>As someone who looked into Simon's Rock before settling a Darrow, I'd say that giving them a childhood is better than a junior college. There are many ways to start preparing kids to get into top schools, but I would not suggest this.</p>
<p>Tokenadult, forgive me if my ideas have already been mentioned - I admit I started skimming about half-way through the posts... :) You mentioned in an early post that yall were investigating boarding at Philips Exeter, which may be a great option for your son. I just thought I'd make a couple of suggestions based on your location (Minnesota?).</p>
<p>If your son is particularly strong in math have yall looked into the UMTYMP program (U of MN Talented Youth Math Program or something along those lines)? I'm not sure how students are originally identified, but it allows them to proceed through high school at a normal pace, but be very accelerated in math thru working with the U of MN. Also, if you live in/near the Twin Cities area, there are some very good private schools there - on par with many East Coast privates. Some to consider may be St Paul Academy & Summit School, Mounds Park Academy, Blake School, and Breck School just to name a few. Good luck to you and your son!</p>
<p>The University of Washington has had a very successful program for early entrance youngsters for many years now. They find that most kids in there program do very well and don't miss high school. Not only are admited kids accepted into the University, but are enrolled in the very selective (about 9% admitted) UW Honors program.</p>
<p><a href="http://depts.washington.edu/cscy/%5B/url%5D">http://depts.washington.edu/cscy/</a></p>
<p>TAMS in Texas lets students use there last two years of highschool to go to college simultaneously, while earning highschool credit...FREE!</p>
<p>Sarah asked about readiness for college as it relates to a learner's readiness to make the decision by himself or herself. I think that's an important point: all these kinds of learning goal decisions have to be made by the learner. I'm asking this week not because my son can't ask for himself, but because </p>
<p>a) he is off at a summer program, where he may very well be asking comparable questions of his fellow program participants, </p>
<p>and </p>
<p>b) I have local friends (that is, parents) whose kids are also curious about early college, and I like to make sure there are vigorous online discussions of this issue (which this thread has become--thanks) to give parents and children plenty to think about as they decide these issues. </p>
<p>Replying to MaryCeleste, I'll mention that one strong point of Wisconsin's Youth Options program, as contrasted with Minnesota's first-in-the-nation PSEO program, is that it appears you get one more year of eligibility out of it for dual enrollment. That weighs in the decision-making process here: young people here can get a similar experience, but only by declaring themselves to be eleventh-graders. I DO think that a program like Minnesota's PSEO or Wisconsin's Youth Options or Washington state's Running Start is an excellent program that all states ought to have, with expansive age limits. </p>
<p>You note that you have not had a problem in participating in academic competitions for secondary school students, which is the usual result for students in dual-enrollment programs. That puts in relief the distinction between taking college classes for high school credit (as in the programs like PSEO) and MATRICULATING at an undergraduate college as a degree candidate in that college who has "completed" secondary education. That's one of the issues I'm considering. </p>
<p>I'm curious, MaryCeleste, why you say, "it would probably be best to send your son to a community, liberal-arts, or other local teaching-focused (as opposed to research-focused) institution, though that would be my advice to all incoming college students as well, regardless of age." </p>
<p>A couple of the people posting in this thread have mentioned [url=<a href="http://www.tjhsst.edu/%5DThomas">http://www.tjhsst.edu/]Thomas</a> Jefferson High School for Science and Technology<a href="which%20I%20affectionately%20call" title="TJ">/url</a>. That might very well be a high school worth moving across country for, but I have no such mobility today because I have a relative in this town who is a quadriplegic, whom I look after with some other relatives. Any school change that involves moving very far will have to involve only my son moving, not the whole family moving. </p>
<p>A few other people in the thread have mentioned locally available schools here in MN. I'll private message you for more information. I am aware that Minnesota residents can attend ANY public school through open enrollment (there are only a few exceptions to that general principle) so that it doesn't matter what school district I live in if there is a good school within reasonable driving distance. I am also aware that some of the most elite privately operated schools in Minnesota have financial aid programs, so that not all students have to pay list price. So far this knowledge has not persuaded me to stop homeschooling, but I'll PM you for more discussion of local choices. </p>
<p>In answer to post #31, my son is already in [url=<a href="http://www.itcep.umn.edu/umtymp/%5DUMTYMP%5B/url">http://www.itcep.umn.edu/umtymp/]UMTYMP[/url</a>], at the young end of the age range for that program, so he has arguably the best local opportunity for pursuing his learning interests already in hand. As against that fact, Exeter would be one of the very few secondary schools that might offer a step up to him in math. </p>
<p>Thanks for the replies. I'm happy to hear from more people in this thread, which I think will be useful to other families who lurk by.</p>
<p>I haven't read the whole thread, but has anyone mentiomned the top boarding high schools?</p>
<p>Hi, Zagat, </p>
<p>Exeter has been mentioned in the thread, and we have inquired at Exeter. What other schools would you consider to be "top boarding high schools"?</p>
<p>I've looked for my own kids. You can check prepreview.com. St Paul's school, Andover, Groton, Deerfield are the tops and it goes from there.</p>
<p>Hotchkiss...St. George's.....Deerfield...Choate... depends on what you're looking for</p>
<p>Interlochen! Not just for the arts, but for science and math!</p>
<p>Thanks for reviving the thread. The subject of this thread was recently the subject of article in the blog of an MIT admissions officer. </p>