<p>"Did her school have an “open curriculum” (i.e. no breadth requirements), or was it extremely generous in allowing AP credit to fulfill breadth requirements? "</p>
<p>-I do not know what this means. D. was in Honors college (200 spots). She went abroad and got 6 credits for several huge progects. She took care of History in HS, thanks goodness as History was her hardest HS subject and she is not interested in it at all. She got her A and “5” and even took SAT II to make sure to avoid it in college. She had Music minor, I am sure there was some music history, but it is not really history. She took one semester of Spanish, one of her best college classes, she could speak freely in Mexico after this class, we could not believe it when we witnessed her talking there. And she took one of the most time consuming classes - Paper Making. I do not know if any of this counts as humanities. D. graduated with much more credits than she needed for graduation. She really enjoyed every science class and all her music classes.</p>
<p>Music and languages like Spanish, as well as art and literature, generally are considered humanities subjects. Subjects like economics, political science, psychology, sociology, anthropology, etc. generally are considered social studies subjects. History and area or cultural studies can be considered either or both humanities and social studies, depending on the specific topics.</p>
<p>^D. took whole load of psych. since she originally had another minor which she dropped being 2 classes shy of completing because of additional requirements of one of her Med. Schools. No, according to her psych. classes were science classes and very intense and interesting. They were not social studies subjects.</p>
<p>I have been in engineering myslef, most of my friends are engineers and my H. is an engineer. If anything, engineers are way ahead of others in intellectual capacity, “lack” is definitely not applicable here. Just to be in any engineering major in UG and actually craduate with engineering degree implies much more brains and hard work ethic than any other major. I do not think of myself this way, as I never liked engineering, not for the lack of intellectual requirement though. After having BS and working for 11 years, I decided to make myself happy and went back to school and switch to Computer Science and I am very happy that I did. But most engeneers are very happy with what they are doing.</p>
<p>“Or perhaps because they realize subconsciously they lack the intellectual equipment to deal with the ambiguities and shades of gray that a well-taught humanities or social science course would force them to grapple with. (Not all engineers, of course, but some that I know.)”</p>
<p>This is ridiculous. I have many friends with degrees in engineering that are doctors, lawyers, investment bankers, entrepreneurs, artists, writers, comedians, etc. For whatever reasons, many very bright students are pushed or pulled toward engineering if they have great math and science skills. This is true regardless of the levels of their skills in other areas. In general, they are excellent problem solvers. It is a fine choice for students who want to graduate and have choices regarding jobs immediately upon getting out of school. If a student’s objectives for college include things such as job security, good compensation and career options, engineering is a good choice. If a student’s objectives are more oriented toward a true liberal arts perspective, engineering is a poor choice. Many students who go to school to become engineers switch careers - either as undergraduates or by pursuing different interests in graduate school. I still can’t believe you said what you did on this topic.</p>
<p>“No, according to her psych. classes were science classes and very intense and interesting.”</p>
<p>While I too found psych classes very interesting, they were never classified as science classes. I would think that is an exception and not typical.</p>
<p>D’s psych classes were definitely science, they were also part of her Neuroscience minor, if this name is any proof. D. does not care about social studies, none of it is interesting for her. She participates in social life, not studying it. She love to be with friends and helping others and she knows how also, did not learn in classes.</p>
<p>to some degree the distinctions between humanities, social science, and natural science are artificial, and anachronistic. Psych today has more biochemistry and less freudian symbolism than it used to IIUC (and the social psych experiments, which used to be the “hard science” end of psych, probably now look more like the soft end) Not only econ, but history and poli sci have more quantitative methodologies. The humanities include much more discussion of issues of class and group identity and power, that used to be more the domain of the social sciences. </p>
<p>None of which should be surprising. “Social science” as a category was itself an invention, of the mid 20th century, I think. And the seperation of math and natural science from the liberal arts was also a novum - originally the sciences WERE part of the liberal arts. </p>
<p>What is surprising is the need people in different majors/fields/careers have to play “my field is superior” games. I would hope one of the benefits of a good college education is the depth of understanding to be above that.</p>
<p>Not all engineering fields are that great in this respect. The apparently popular bioengineering major does not lead to particularly good job and career prospects.</p>
<p>In any case, using job and career prospects as the only criterion in selecting a major is not a good idea. Many of those who go to engineering solely for the job and career prospects but do not really enjoy math, science, and/or designing things leave the major after struggling with those courses.</p>
<p>"In any case, using job and career prospects as the only criterion in selecting a major is not a good idea. Many of those who go to engineering solely for the job and career prospects but do not really enjoy math, science, and/or designing things leave the major after struggling with those courses. "</p>
<p>-I actually left engineering because of complete opposite. I went to engineering because of love for math and science, I never struggled with them. I left it because I did not like the job itself.</p>
<p>Not at all true at DD’s college at least. Every engineer have to take 8 humanities classes that can’t be substituded with science/engineering classes. Every one also need a concentration in humanities as part of the 8 classes so you can’t just choose random 8 classes.</p>
<p>“This is a completely wrong way to look at college. College is not about getting a job. It is an investment to enrich the mind.”</p>
<p>The more I thought about this comment, the more I disagreed with it. Yes, once upon a time this was the reason for college to become a learned MAN. There are, no doubt, a number of school who still go to college to achieve this goal. But times have changed. Lets start with a few examples. What about the student who gets an athletic scholarship with the hope of eventually becoming a professional as a means of bringing his or her family out of poverty? What about the student that had experienced the turmoil of his parents losing their jobs or maybe even their home? Can you understand how the motivation for higher earnings, more career choices and enhanced job security might become important in and of themselves? What about the patriotic American student who truly wants to enroll in one of our fine military academies and realizes they could become a doctor or dentist along the way?</p>
<p>More generally, people with college degrees typically earn more, are capable of qualifying for a wider range of positions, have greater career choice, have more job security and develop networks to assist in all of the above. College educated people tend to have a better lifestyle (although this is materialistically true I personally do not agree it is categorically true). College graduates can have immediate professions as engineers, nurses, accountants, etc. They can also go on to indirect careers as lawyers, bankers, consultants, etc. This is equally true for lower level degrees such as those from community colleges or two year associate programs. Many people go to school simply because it is expected. College naturally follows high school just as high school follows middle school. Everyone in the family may have gone to college OR the student may be the very first in his or her family with the opportunity to do so. Some may go to college to pursue an Olympic dream or just to have the opportunity to continue to play a beloved sport for a few more years. </p>
<p>Im sure there are many, many other reasons as well. All students clearly do not go to college to simply or only enrich their minds.</p>
<p>I think it varies by student. I think both my older kids are going to college with career prep in mind. Oldest started in international affairs, and has strongly gravitated to economics. While she enjoys learning, she is looking toward specific career opportunities. I was happy to see her school, GW, listed as having a reasonable payback in the SmartMoney article. She has been very happy there with her classes and opportunities for internships. My son has a specific career in mind and is pursuing that as well. Youngest D is looking at LAC’s, and may go for that pure education ideal because she has no idea what she wants to do with her life!</p>
<p>I majored in engineering for the job prospects, and while I liked math and science, did not really like engineering once I graduated and had to work. I tell my kids I got through college never having to write a paper on anything! (Though I did a lot of writing in high school and have better writing skills than they have learned in our local school district.) I also had to write lengthy college lab reports, which were graded by an English teacher. I took the minimum social science classes required. My Pysch sequence had all multiple choice tests. Worked for me, as that was not what I was there to study.</p>
<p>“I majored in engineering for the job prospects, and while I liked math and science, did not really like engineering once I graduated and had to work. I tell my kids I got through college never having to write a paper on anything!”</p>