Colleges sabotaging graduating in 4 years.

Although it does seem that graduating in fewer than 8 semesters (if possible due to AP or college credit earned in high school) is commonly discouraged on these forums, even though the same argument applies to this situation (earlier entry into the work force, so extra year of work earnings, etc.).

Of course, graduating earlier may not be advantageous in this way if the earlier graduation date happens to be during an economic or industry downturn, in which case it can mean graduating into unemployment.

I do not discourage one from graduating in less than the traditional 8 semesters if planning on moving into a masters program or other graduate program or if one has a job offer.

The job market is increasingly demanding specialized masters degrees ( for example, accounting & CPA licensure).

Even those who secure prized jobs in IB & MC are expected to return to school for an MBA after 3 or 4 years of full time work experience.

Education is expensive.

I graduated in 3 years many years ago (AP and summer school).
2 sons.
One had issues in undergrad, but managed to graduate in 4 years anyway (because of AP credits).
Other could graduate in 3 years if he took an extra course each semester junior year, or he will have a very light single semester senior year to graduate.

3 different colleges and all worked out fine…
I think there is some luck but mostly planning involved, and you can’t expect the school to baby your adult child.
Advisors can only do so much, you need to read what is required and plan it out yourself.

I know of two schools with an advantage for four year grad rate and they use the four credit hour per class system - Elon and Lafayette.

Every semester, the students take four classes at four hours each for 16 credits. Both schools have a J term for an extra four hours covered by tuition. If you take a J term class each year, that is an extra semester giving ample flexibility for changing a major. I would love to hear of more schools who have this schedule.

I am pretty well versed about all things UW and never heard such a claim. There were housing recession severe budget cuts that might have made things less easy but it was never intentional. The 4 yr grad rate has been around 60% for some time with an upward time. Engineering and Education majors nearly all take more time time due to outside work requirements.
https://uwmadison.app.box.com/s/eo8cfkvikthbnlr6k7q48ck7q21f38fy
https://uwmadison.app.box.com/s/4r2eo4gh4rauru6g5wwqdsiwxz63ejlf

https://uwmadison.app.box.com/s/4hkz9ydb73dzkdytlpi5seqgsnppqn3m

“But even going to summer school to graduate in 4 years comes at a cost of additional tuition and room/board, right?”

Yes, of course, @socaldad2002

If you really don’t want to pay for a minute longer than 4 years of college, you will need to be a bit strategic about it. Going private is an option if you can afford it. Or picking a public campus with a high 4-year graduation rate and then stressing to your child the need to pick their classes and major very carefully. It CAN be done. Everyone in my California family graduated in 4 or fewer years from the UCs. Plenty parents on this forum have kids who graduated from their big publics in 4 years as well.

I had similar thoughts, although the 4-year graduation rate was less than 50% ten years ago, increasing towards 60% today as selectivity has increased. Looking at the 10 colleges whose 25th and 75th percentile ACT are within a point of Madison and have similar portion of students majoring in engineering; the most recent 4-year graduation rates as listed in IPEDS are below. The median 4-year graduation rate is 62%. UW’s 55% is somewhat below the median, but far from " almost impossible to graduate in 4 years." Previous years follow similar patterns.

Santa Clara University – 78%
Southern Methodist University – 67%
University of Connecticut – 67%
University of Florida – 67%
University of Pittsburgh-Pittsburgh – 65%
University of Washington-Seattle – 62%
Ohio State University – 61%
Clemson University – 61%
University of Minnesota-Twin Cities – 58%
University of Wisconsin-Madison – 55%
The University of Texas at Austin – 52%

No, colleges do not sabotage their own 4 year grad rates. 1. As the data is reported, this would be foolish from a recruitment standpoint 2. Each semester marks a point for students to exit before earning a degree. Why create more exit points? 3. Purposely prolonging degree completion puts students at a greater risk of maxing out fed loans and/or running out of money to complete. Noncompleters or students not done in 6 years hurt a college’s stats. Purposely increasing time to graduation would be a very poor business practice indeed

My kids both graduated in 4 years, no summers, in engineering, from big state schools. As noted, kids do it all the time at public schools. Much depends on the motivation of the student , willingness to take a full course load and he proactive in getting required courses to stay on track. We also made it clear that we expected them to graduate in 4 years, barring unforeseen circumstances. And we had them take minimal unsubsidized loans each year that were available, well below the maximum limit.

Florida public universities require undergraduates who entere with fewer than 60 credits to earn at least 9 credit during summer sessions. This may be to spread the enrollment away from the possibly overloaded fall and spring semesters into the underused summer sessions. However, it does effectively mean that most students will need 8.5 semesters of school (counting the summer as 0.5 semester) unless they manage to need only 7 or fewer regular semesters (for a total of 7.5 semesters including the required summer), even though it may not necessarily extend calendar time to graduation beyond 4 years.

https://catalog.ufl.edu/UGRD/academic-regulations/degree-graduation-policies/#text

This looks in the link like the summer enrollment requirement relates to graduation requirements and relates to transfer students, not to kids coming straight out of high school? It mentions 60 transfer credits. I am not in Florida though so not clear on the link and how all that works.

It can be tough for engineering majors (even with AP credits) due to the course sequence challenges. Also there may be more credits. (At CO School of Mines, I think some degrees require 140+ credit … it’s hard to complete it w/o extra summer or semester).

https://catalog.ufl.edu/UGRD/academic-regulations/degree-graduation-policies/#text says:

In other words, transferring in at least 60 credits exempts the student from the 9 credit summer course work requirement. I.e. transfer students with junior standing (at least 60 credits) are exempt, while most frosh are subject to the requirement (except for frosh with at least 60 college credits earned while in high school). Transfers with sophomore standing are also subject to the requirement.

I once had a discussion with the director of admissions to one of the UC’s. She stated that they were trying to up their 4 year grad rate as it would allow them to admit more incoming freshmen.

The 4 year grad rate can vary quite a bit depending on major. Engineering is one major I am familiar with and the sequencing of classes becomes an issue very quickly. Students will start the first class in a sequence and then drop it for various reasons (typically grades). They sign up for it again the next quarter, creating a bottleneck.

My son went to a public university and was missing one class that was a prerequisite for his senior engineering project. The senior project was 3 quarters and could only be started in the fall quarter. So, for that one class, he ended up going an extra year. He did take a lot more classes in his major and made himself better prepared for the job market but at a cost. The biggest cost wasn’t tuition, but rent and living expenses.

My daughter went to an expensive private college, also for engineering. After my son’s experience, we paid close attention to 4 year grad rates when selecting colleges. She got a generous amount of merit money and easily graduated in 4 years.

The student needs to take responsibility for making sure they stay on track but, as in my son’s case, the school was “impacted” and class availability was a big issue.

Was not having the course because he and his major advisor overlooked the need to take that course in time, or because the course was full when he tried to take it, or because the department changed requirements with insufficient advanced notice like the SDSU EE situation?

When I went to college, the four year graduation rate was probably under 40%, but I had no trouble graduating in four years / eight semesters. But it did seem that many students then were taking light course loads (12-13 credits instead of averaging 15 or more credits), presumably causing late graduation.

It is definitely tough with engineering @colorado_mom . I glanced at Colorado School of Mines and see 134.5 for chemical and mechanical and 135.5 for civil. Kids at VT get off easy with only needing 133 credits for civil!

One of my kids did have trouble initially getting one course he needed to stay on track and had to really advocate for himself to get that class. He was frustrated but kept after it- talked with advisor, talked to department administrator, used force add. Some majors , like in engineering do tend to have higher credit requirements that make it tough.

@socaldad2002

My kids both had AP or DE credits from HS. In neither case did these courses apply to their majors. They didn’t help them graduate one minute earlier. Not one. One kid did have a full year of required history credit applied…but really…it didn’t make graduation earlier possible.

The second kid had AP and DE courses which the college gladly accepted. She got college credit, but none applied to her major or to elective courses. She just had a lot of extra credits.

Having said all that…both kids graduated on four years. Neither switched majors or colleges. That is probably one of the things that most makes kids take longer to graduate.

The class my son was missing was the last of a series that he had trouble getting into the first of the sequence. His major was “impacted” and class availability seemed to be always an issue. His school has since become a little easier to get into classes that drive their grad rates.

Most Florida kids I know actually graduated faster because of the summer requirement. I know kids who took the summer session immediately after high school. That, with any AP/DE credits often made them sophomores when they started in the fall.

Now that Bright Futures can be used in the summer makes more kids want to go summer sessions. Also, there is a summer session that starts in May and is done by June, so those students can just stay a month longer one year to meet the requirement and still graduate in 8 semesters, do internships, travel for the summer.

Thanks for the inside info on Florida @twoinanddone . The info in the link does not tell the whole story for entering frshman, as I figured. You are lucky in Florida to have Bright Futures. We have good schools in Virginia but no program like Bright Futures.