<p>slipper1234,
The W&L comparison goes to size, rural/small town location, beautiful surrounding area, very strong Greek scene, and outstanding student bodies. </p>
<p>I think you have an aversion to all things Southern. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>I don't know if you've ever been to Lexington or know the students or not, but the comparison to W&L is a compliment. Unlike many other schools in the Ivy League, the environment in Hanover is very strong academically AND socially. Same is true with W&L.</p>
<p>I actually think Brown and Dartmouth are great comparisons. Both are undergrad focused Ivies with a great social scene and laid-back student bodies. Brown isn't nearly as hyper liberal as its portrayed, while Dartmouth is much more liberal than it is portrayed. </p>
<p>As for W&L, I like southern schools such as Duke and Emory and perhaps even Vandy. But W&L seems much more "good old boy" old-school homogenous and conservative than its southern top-school counterparts.</p>
<p>Dartmouth is much more like Brown than it is like W&L.</p>
<p>slipper1234,
I think you have expressed a historically accurate opinion on W&L. However, with the arrival of women, the school has changed significantly and IMO, almost all for the better. The school and the students are still pretty preppy and this may be a turn-off to some, but the intellectual caliber is strong, the teaching in the classroom is reputedly very solid and fundamental, the graduates are well prepared, and there is a greater acceptance/tolerance of other viewpoints than one might find on many Northern campuses that swing more to the liberal side. </p>
<p>I think that there is this underlying perception that the South and its colleges is full of bigots. Sure they exist in some locales (as they do in the North, but just with different prejudices), but I think you will find a much more accepting environment on Southern campuses than you might expect and certainly one that is more welcoming to all students and political perspectives than many of the northern schools.</p>
<p>I don't get the impression that the social scene at Williams, Amherst, Middlebury is that similar to Dartmouth. They all share strong academics in northeast rural environs (Amherst not as much), but are all half the size or less of Dartmouth with no Greek scene and D-III sports.</p>
Both are undergrad focused Ivies with a great social scene and laid-back student bodies. Brown isn't nearly as hyper liberal as its portrayed, while Dartmouth is much more liberal than it is portrayed.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>i would agree that dartmouth and brown are more similar than dartmouth and w&l. however, while you consistently make claims about how liberal dartmouth is (and it is liberal), it seems you do so without context... seemingly assuming that dartmouth is the only 'conservative' school more liberal than advertised.</p>
<p>at the end of the day w&l, furman, wake forest, notre dame, rhodes, vanderbilt and w&m are probably the ONLY 'conservative' schools less similar to dartmouth politically than dartmouth is to brown. that leaves the next tier, the bucknells, colgates, dukes, et cetera... MORE like dartmouth than brown, at least politically.</p>
<p>Gellino, Dartmouth sports are not a huge part of campus life. Also, while Middlebury, Amherst, and Williams are not greek the social scenes are similar in the manner to which students hang out. Dartmouth's greek scene is much more inclusive than most greek scenes. </p>
<p>Erica, I don't know about the politics at Colgate, Duke, and bucknell but I do know that Dartmouth is much more liberal than advertised (80% voted Kerry in 2004) and W&L is very conservative. Also Duke is very diverse (35%+) but Bucknell and Colgate significantly lag in this regard compared to Dartmouth.</p>
<p>I was at Dartmouth; so I know to what degree sports are a part of campus life and the fact that it is D-I vs D-III is a distinct difference. </p>
<p>I'm not sure what it means that Williams, Amherst, Middlebury are similar to Dartmouth in the manner to which students hang out and how that is possibly any different than the manner to which students hang out at Bowdoin, Wesleyan, Trinity, Tufts, Union, Colgate, Bucknell, Lafayette, any other non-urban NE school.</p>
<p>I do grant you that the Greek scene at Dartmouth is more inclusive than at most schools and is an aspect that I like. However, I would also say that the Greek system dominates the social scene at Dartmouth more than it does at other schools with Greek systems and the downtown bars of Hanover, NH are less filled with students than those in Ithaca, NY; Hamilton, NY.</p>
<p>Maybe, it's because you are in the minority, but it seems to me that you are overly concerned with whether a school is 31% minority or 21% minority and how that is such an important aspect of evaluating a school. Not that I think USNWR should be adhered to or more than loosely followed, but is that one of their criteria in their rankings? Perhaps, it's a new-age PC thing, but when I was applying to schools, I don't remember these type of numbers being promoted or being at all concerned about them.</p>
<p>My take is that Dartmouth is one of the few rural, liberal-artsy, schools with a sizable minority/ international population and a liberal student body (add Amherst and a few others into that mix). That factor alone makes it comfortable for many people while many other schools of the same archetype might not be (ex Davidson, Wake Forest, or W&L). Ajay is a student from India for example. While I easily see Dartmouth as a great fit for an international, a school like W&L does not.</p>
<p>It's very difficult to get a complete read on a moving target, as Dartmouth has been for the past twenty years. Do a Lexis/Nexus search on Dartmouth for even the past decade and you will find story after story about feuds between trustees, presidents being ousted and everybody blaming their Wesleyan educated dean of admissions for every move toward greater diversity. I think Dartmouth is much, much closer to Brown today than it was a decade ago. And, actually, I know of several people (New Yorkers) who had a difficult time choosing between it and Wesleyan.</p>
<p>That doesn't mean that there isn't always going to be a minority that represents the stereotypical Dartmouth/Animal House image, just as there will always be a minority at Wesleyan that represents its PCU image. If anything, the typical NESCAC (little ivy) college is more like the Dartmouth of twenty years ago because they need a higher percentage of their student bodies devoted to sports in order to field an equal number of varsity teams.</p>
<p>There is no question Dartmouth is a moving target. Even in only four years there I saw the student body shift (1998-2002). Its very different than it was even 15 years ago. Interestingly, internal debates tend to be between more liberal and diversity sensitive recent students/faculty/alumni and older, more conservative, alumni.</p>
<p>I think the minorities should be less concerned with the percentage of minority students and more concerned with the level of inter-racial interaction. For example, Duke, which has heretofore been compared with D-Mouth, has a large % of minorities, but the students interact mostly with others from their own ethnicity (The Greek Scene too). D-Mouth, on the other hand, seems much more inclusive and integrated (+ awesome social life)</p>
<p>So what schools are similar to Dartmouth in most other ways AND have frequent inter-racial interactions? </p>
<p>^fast27 - stop parroting comments based on the Lax hoax. If you think Princeton and Dartmouth have more inter-racial interaction than Duke, you are kidding yourself. It really irritates me when people make unverifiable comments such as that attacking a school. I'm guessing you go to an Ivy League, or that you know little about colleges in general. Fact is, Duke is more diverse in terms of % terms. Thats the only empirical fact in your post, the rest is made up.</p>
<p>BTW, since we're talking about minorities, lets see what African American groups think about Dartmouth, Duke, and Princeton:</p>
<p>On the "Social Survey" component, Duke ranks higher than Stanford, Harvard, Columbia, and every other top University. The "Social Survey" component refers to...you guessed it...social life.</p>
<p>Btw, I'll repeat again that the nearest top University to Dartmouth is Duke. Just compare the schools:</p>
<ul>
<li>active social scene (frats, drinking, sports, fun, not much of a city life)</li>
<li>tons of school spirit</li>
<li>top academics and placement (Dartmouth and Duke are next to each other on the WSJ placement rankings)</li>
<li>similar student body strength</li>
</ul>
<p>You'll find that the rest of the Ivy league and top 15 has key differences from Dartmouth in one of these areas, Duke does not.</p>
<p>Duke is more national while Dartmouth more centered on taditional preppy northeast. Also Duke is an annual top10-15 participant in the Directors Cup with top programs in many sports except football. Dartmouth has fallen among its Ivy peers in athletics especially in football. From athletic profile Dartmouth resembles Holy Cross and Colgate both schools appear on many of the Big Green's athletic schedules. Duke, Dartmouth, HC and Colgate all have strong alumni networks.</p>
<p>Dartmouth, as all other Ivies, is Division I in all sports. There is no Division I-AA. The only tangent on this is that there are two subdivisions in D-I football, bcs and playoff. The Ivies are in the playoff division.</p>