Colleges strong in both academics & photography

[merremame]

<p>Hello, parents.</p>

<p>My younger daughter, a HS Junior, is beginning to explore colleges. She is very involved in photography - film photography rather than digital photography; fine art rather than commercial - and is clear that she wants to attend a college which has a good department in this field. But, she also wants a school with a strong liberal arts program. She is a very good student, academically and artistically, and will probably get strong recommendations from her teachers. She attends a school which doesn't assign grades until they're needed for college applications, but i'm pretty sure that the grades will be high. She did OK on her practice SAT, but not great; something like: in the middle/low-middle percentile in Math, and in 87th (?) percentile in the Lit/reading comprehension section.</p>

<p>Bard College would seem at the top of the list, in terms of meeting this criteria. My daughter knows this, but would really like to find other options; there are a myriad of reasons: too close to home; many kids from her school attend; she doesn't like what she perceives as the predominance of "hipsters" (although she is the opposite of conservative).</p>

<p>I have searched CC, and still haven't gotten a clear sense of schools, other than Bard, which closely fit the criteria. I'd greatly appreciate suggestions.</p>

<p>I will also post this question in the "Visual Arts and Film" section.</p>

<p>Thanks very much!</p>

[taxguy]

<p>I would put Rochester Institute of Technology on the top of the list. I might also recommend RISD. Yale supposedly has a strong photography program, UCLA, Arizona State University, Bard College , University of Arizona, MICA, and Temple University. If you don’t care as much about the liberal arts and want strong photography …period, I would recommend RIT, School of Visual Arts, School of Art Institute in Chicago( This is a different place from the Art Institutes), Cal Arts, California College of the Arts.</p>

[drae27]

<p>Syracuse University
New York University (Tisch School of the Arts)
Both have very strong programs in the context of large universities. The best of both worlds - small, intimate programs with lots of attention and many liberal arts minors to choose from if interested.
You are spot on about Bard…some excellent teachers for photography on faculty there. Maybe what she is trying to say when she says “too many hipsters” is that being stuck on a rural campus with them is what will be too much. When they are mixed in with a wide variety of people they actually might end up being the very people she would hang out with. (Just saying this because my S2 said the same thing and is also the opposite of conservative. There was no way I could convince him to even apply to Bard. Hampshire too :))</p>

<p>Curious if she is interested in a more traditional approach to photography - documentary, portraiture? More commercial - fashion, advertising? Or fine art, conceptual? That could make a difference in where she goes as well.</p>

[Wheaty]

<p>Merremame,</p>

<p>I agree with the previous posts, your daughter will have many excellent schools that would satisfy her requirements. I’m going to assume the following: your daughter places equal weight on photography and liberal arts, her GPA is above a 3.6, and her fine art photo portfolio will be killer. (A lot of assumptions! :)) If those are correct then I would offer this list:</p>

<p>UCLA
Yale (need super high stats)
Brown/RISD (dual enrollment) (super high stats)
USC - Roski
NYU - Tisch
U of Penn - Penn Design (super high stats)</p>

<p>Followed by:
U of New Mexico
U of Michigan
Arizona
Arizona St.
Syracuse</p>

<p>Followed by:
Many, many universities. Lots of solid schools have good photo departments. For example, U of Iowa, Virginia and Texas all have perfectly good art departments and good to excellent liberal arts programs. Of course some universities have not so good art departments so you’ll have to do some leg work.</p>

<p>I’m not that high on Bard except they have Professor Stephen Shore who is considered one of the fathers of modern fine art photography. Heavy weight dude. His work is excellent and he, Eggleston, and a few more are credited with shifting fine art photography to where it is now. </p>

<p>Also, what is your daughter doing this summer? I highly recommend that you guys consider a photo class or two at one of the above colleges this summer. </p>

<p>I don’t know enough about the liberal arts opportunities at the other schools mentioned in the posts above and so I couldn’t list them. That’s not to say they aren’t excellent, it just points to my lack of knowledge.</p>

<p>Best Regards,
Wheaty</p>

[greenwitch]

<p>I would add Drexel to the list also. I think her stats would fit there.</p>

[merremame]

<p>Thanks, everyone, for all the suggestions. We’ll look at the ones that are new to our list.</p>

<p>In answer to some of the questions posted:</p>

<p>I think that my daughter would consider any geographical region.</p>

<p>We’re familiar with the potential difficulties regarding continuing in the Bard photography program, due to its excellence and resulting competitiveness. However, in my experience (I attended Bard, many years ago, as an Art major), the “Moderation” program can be a very good thing; it still doesn’t seem to be evaluative in any negative way; instead, it helps to focus the student. My experience was that it was a very supportive process. I have heard, however, that the process is hit-and-miss now, due to the larger number of students.</p>

<p>Questions for Wheaty!:
-What about Bard has you feeling not very “high” on it?
–I think that my daughter places a bit more weight on the Photography, but good academics are extremely important to her.
—I think that her GPA will be high; as I had said, her school doesn’t assign grades until needed for college applications. As both a proud (and therefore biased) parent (but also a parent who is an artist myself, so maybe I have at least a little bit of objectivity), I think that her photography is “killer”. But, she doesn’t feel quite as secure. Recently, she has surprised me: it seems clear to me, and to her teachers, that her work (both art and academic) is “killer” (but, perhaps I’M the one who is being naive, making assumptions which will be proven incorrect), but she is exhibiting quite a bit of insecurity. I think that this college stuff is her first experience with being evaluated in a more traditional (she would call it “mechanistic”) way. She attended a Waldorf school, and is now attending a very un-grade-oriented High School.
----I know that Yale has a very good graduate program in the Arts. Do you know that their undergraduate Arts program is also very good? Any specific knowledge about the Photography? And, I’m assuming that applying as an Arts major is just as difficult as in any other context.
----The summer photo class is a great idea, but she has applied for an internship at my old gallery in NYC, and is really hoping for that.</p>

<p>drae27:
-Re NYU/Tisch: I remember hearing, when my older daughter and I visited NYU, that it was an extremely difficult and cumbersome process to take a class in a division outside of the one in which the student was enrolled. But, perhaps we misunderstood. Do you know anything about this?
–Your evaluation of the hipster “dilemma” is spot on, I think. Where did your son end up attending? Is he happy with his choice?
—The type of photography in which she is interested: Fine art, conceptual; film, not digital.</p>

<p>Does anyone have experience with the RISD/Brown situation? Mainly: Is it as difficult to be accepted into this dual program as it would be to apply primarily to Brown? </p>

<p>Thanks again, everyone.</p>

[drae27]

<p>About NYU - I am an alumnus of Tisch Photo. Though things may have changed since I went there, this is what I remember: Because it is a BFA, many of the classes will be fulfilled within the department itself. But when it comes to taking your liberal arts, you must choose classes from the rest of the school. So my freshman writing classes were mixed with students from all over the school. Same for any other classes, even art history. I was not focused on doing a minor, but I can’t imagine that it would be impossible.</p>

<p>NYU also has Gallatin - a school for creating individualized majors. If you are a Gallatin student you can take classes in most other schools/departments at NYU. When my son went to their info session they said the only majors that were very difficult to get classes in were Tisch Film and Stern Business.</p>

<p>My son is actually a senior now (at a Waldorf School ) and just finished applying to schools. He is not as clear as your daughter about what he wants to pursue but he does know that he needs to be around creative people and either be in a city or have access to one. In the end he applied to NYU Gallatin, Eugene Lang, Sarah Lawrence, SUNY Purchase both in the Liberal Arts School and for a BS in Visual Arts, SAIC and MICA. </p>

<p>The BS in Visual Arts at Purchase is interesting. The students start out doing foundation year with all of the visual arts students and they can specialize in a medium or do an interdisciplinary studio concentration but they do much more liberal arts (especially art history) than the BFA students. Purchase also offers the opportunity in the Liberal Arts School to create your own major under the heading Liberal Studies. They say they allow those students to take studio art classes but I worry that they are given a low priority over majors when it comes time to actually register.</p>

<p>He has SAIC and MICA on his list because 1) SAIC offers a BA in Critical and Visual Studies and yet you can take many studio classes. In fact these students also do foundation studies with all of the BFA students. If you do Visual and Critical Studies you can stay on for a 5th year and end up with a second degree in Studio Art 2) MICA seems to be making a concerted effort to strengthen their liberal arts program. They now offer a major in Humanistic Studies and many minors/concentrations in liberal arts. When I took a look at their course offerings I was pretty impressed.</p>

<p>I have an older son who is now at RISD in ID. The liberal arts are decent there and kids can take classes at Brown if they have the wherewithal to navigate the difference in semester schedules. Also, RISD students must wait until the first day of the semester to register for those classes. (ie. show up to class, see if there is room, get permission and then register). That is not the case if the student is in the dual degree program. Those students start out in the RISD Foundation. Then go over to Brown for a year and do their Freshman program and then they are free to take what ever they want in the remaining 3 years so long as they satisfy the requirements of their two majors. The program is very hard to get into. I think even harder that the regular admission to Brown because they let in so few kids (under 20 a year).</p>

<p>Lastly, since she is interested in fine art, even conceptual work, take a look at Cal Arts. Their liberal arts are very “critical theory” oriented but I get the sense that good things are happening there.</p>

[drae27]

<p>oh…I know you asked Wheaty, but about Yale Photo - The undergraduate visual arts program is a very different animal from the grad program. I would check to see what classes are actually offered and if any faculty from the grad program move down and teach in the undergrad. I think Yale’s philosophy is that the undergrad years are a preparation for grad school and the focus is on getting as broad an education as possible.</p>

[silphion]

<p>Dear merreme!</p>

<p>I am a European photographer and already hold a photography degree from a popular European school which is more artistic orientated. I am currently applying myself as international student to lots of US Photography schools. So I hear a lot from them and read a lot about their programs.
According to my knowledge about photography and studying it for many years, I strongly suggest you to make sure in what kind of photography your daughter is interested in. Since there is not one or one kind of photography existing in our world most of the schools that could be interesting do have slightly or absolutely different directions in photography. Some are more commercial and career orientated some are more free and theoretical, some are more interested in teaching documentary photography, photojournalism or fashion photography,… some schools are more artistic and conceptual/ media reflective which might be interesting for your daughter if she`s interested in learning more about theory and philosophy of nowadays photography as well.

Another point is that the support of the students varies in its quality and interest on the students. Some schools offer weekly courses with critics where you can show and discuss your work frequently, at some other schools you might only see your professors two three times a year. Even in the admission process it shows that some schools are more friendly and supportive when it comes about specific questions or sending reminders on missing materials and so on. Its on you to find out where you get the best support so you can focus on that what you want to do without getting old and disappointed while waiting for concrete answers and support with what you may need there. I know that Its much easier to work in a supportive environment with a friendly and engaged staff and the chance to get frequent critics and corrections, but some people dont care to much about that as they prefer to be absolutely free and have time or $ without end so its not so important if things happen today or tomorrow. That`s a question of what type of student your daughter is.</p>

<p>I suggest you to visit some school and check who takes a little time for you and your daughter’s portfolio. When I tried to visit the U.S. schools for a personal appointment some were very helpful and some didn`t even reply on my mails for an appointment. So it might be the same thing later when you have some questions about your work as well.
For finding the best/ or better the school that suits best to your daughter check their courses, if she likes the work of the artists that teach there and what they have when it comes about networking, career service and contacts to museums and galleries.
Thus There are the question how much support your daughter needs and how frequent and what kind of photography she is most interested about. Some schools you absolutely should check are:
RISD,ICP, Columbia, SVA, Parsons, SFAI, Cal-Arts, SAIC, Pratt, Tyler, Boston University, Brooks.</p>

<p>Hope this is a little helpful! :-)</p>

[Wheaty]

<p>Merremame,</p>

<p>Regarding Bard… I look at college photography all the time, I’ve seen hundreds and hundreds of student portfolios and I have seen very little Bard student product that I thought was special. I put a lot of weight on the images that students produce as an indication of the quality of a college program. Quite frankly I see much better work from say, UC Irvine, right now than from Bard. On paper Bard should be top-tier but IMO they are not. But just an opinion from an old right-of-center Californian (with inherent biases!) so take it with a grain of salt.</p>

<p>Yale undergrad photo is good to very good. Most classes are not taught by the famous MFA photo professors but still Yale is Yale and they have very fine UG professors. BTW, getting in here is all about making Yale-level stats, essays, EC’s etc and not as much about the portfolio.</p>

<p>I understand about your daughter’s HS not using grades but you guys have to start to zero in on a GPA because you are shooting blind without one.</p>

<p>Brown/RISD is SUPER hard to get into - I think they accept 16 students per year. Get accepted to BOTH schools and then MAYBE you have a chance. Also, this is a five year program and very demanding. I interviewed two kids in the program now and they are running to keep it going. Both are sort of exhausted but pleased I would say. An alternative might be just simply Brown on it’s own as they have a very good art department and you might be able to juggle in a RISD class here and there.</p>

<p>Silphion mentioned ICP and that reminds me of the St Johns-ICP program in Queens and Manhattan. An under the radar very interesting program I think. My memory is hazy but I think Bard also has a program with ICP (maybe it’s grad?), check their site.</p>

<p>I have seen a crazy high correlation between top summer pre-college programs and admissions to top art colleges. An internship is good but 6 weeks at a target college summer program might be better. (Sorry, this is my favorite drum to beat.)</p>

<p>As many here are saying, there are many many good choices for liberal arts photographers. Tons in fact. Getting the GPA and SAT/ACT stats will help you narrow the field.</p>

<p>Best Regards,
Wheaty</p>

[merremame]

<p>Thanks, everyone, for all the good suggestions.
Wheaty, could you list some summer pre-college programs that focus on photography, if you know of any?
Best,
merremame</p>

[jabesss]

<p>One has strong art; the other strong art and academics. My son is trying to decide. He’s made both and is torn between going just for art and going to NYU and getting art and strong academics. He was really impressed with NYU, but still wants to check out SAIC. Is it worth it???</p>

[Wheaty]

<p>merremame,</p>

<p>Sorry for the late response…</p>

<p>There are a lot of good options for photo summer programs. RISD, SAIC, UCLA would all be great to build skills and portfolios. So would any number of the top programs that might be closer to home. I’m a big fan of going to pre-college at one of the target colleges on your list. You get college credits while sampling the real product.</p>

<p>Also don’t forget the golden rule of photography: good photographers got to be good by taking LOTS of pictures. </p>

<p>“Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst.”
― Henri Cartier-Bresson</p>

<p>So, photographers should always have a camera with them and always be looking for an interesting subject or a patch of interesting light. So this summer your student should have a camera glued to their hand… shoot, edit, learn, repeat. This one point is more important than any piece of gear.</p>

<p>Best Regards,
Wheaty</p>

[Wheaty]

<p>Jabesss,</p>

<p>I would check out SAIC, it’s pretty impressive. Ha, of course so is NYU! Great choices for your son.</p>

[pcuser20]

<p>Hello everyone, since this thread is discussing photography, i will like to ask my a few questions.
I am an international and been quite deeply involved in photography for quite some time and i am even making my essay around it! I was looking for colleges that will really value me for this, and although i did some research can anyone suggest a few names for me to look into? That will be really helpful :)I dont want to study anything related to photography in college however just want a college with a great liberal art program.
i have some what mideocore academics and had disastrously bad SAT exam shouldn’t topple 2000. I will need some aid and i am from Bangladesh if that changes anything.</p>