Hi-
Do any of you know of colleges that are great at teaching physics to undergraduates? I don’t care about prestige, brand names, etc- just want to know of colleges where students have a great experience learning/majoring in physics.
Thanks!
That’s a pretty broad question, and depends on where your interests lie on the hands on, experimental, applied vs pure theoretical spectrum. The more you’re interested in theoretical physics, the more important pure math becomes in undergrad.
Thanks for responding- I’m helping my daughter look for colleges. She is only a high school junior so hasn’t been exposed to too much- just knows she likes Physics and is thinking to major in it in college. She’s not sure if she would go on to grad school after that, or get a job. She is taking AP physics and calculus- and also had an internship last summer in particle physics that she will get to continue this summer. She liked the particle physics a lot- but isn’t sure that’s the area of physics she would want to continue on in. She enjoys math. Her internship combined particle physics and computer programming- and she enjoyed that combo. I’m just looking for a college where they do a great job of teaching their undergraduates physics. My understanding is the curriculum for an undergrad physics major will be pretty similar from college to college- but I imagine some colleges are better at delivering it?
My kid decided to be a physics major after lunch with a physics prof (she’d originally sat at the prospective psychology majors table; upon finding the discussion dull, she moved) at Lawrence U. He apparently explained the imaging project he was working on with an assortment of silverware and table decorations.
She was also tremendously impressed with the intro physics class she sat in on at Smith. Tiny class (~17 students), really enthusiastic professor, lots of toys for hands-on work. The group she was assigned to was welcoming enough that she was comfortable speaking up when she was unsure and turned out to be wrong, and comfortable speaking up when she knew the answer and someone else was wrong.
If you’re looking at smaller schools, the depth of the curriculum (and availability and ease of cross registration at other schools) may be an issue. If your kid likes big schools better, she’s likely to have more options.
What kind of stats does she have? My D attended Harvey Mudd (which has graduated more than 50% female physics majors in recent years). She loved it, is a physics grad student now.
There are many such colleges. The one I’m most familiar with is Caltech, at which a brother of mine earned both a B.S. and a Ph.D. in physics. He had the great experience of taking physics courses from two Nobel Prize winners – one (Richard Feynman) in his first year and another (Murray Gell-Mann) in graduate school.
He also worked as a teaching assistant (TA) in physics for Gell-Mann, who also supervised his doctoral thesis. It was a pretty intimidating task to be a TA in Physics I at Caltech, because he just knew that some of those students were smarter than he was! (Of course, he’s no dummy, and has done quite well in his career.) Of course Caltech is excellent in many fields. Many years ago I was schooled in my choice of colleges by an uncle who was a geologist at Caltech.
Feynman’s lecture notes are available on-line: http://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/
Reed is good if her tastes run that way.
You could look into the excellent physics programs at undergraduate-focused colleges such as Williams, Hamilton, Wesleyan, Middlebury, Colgate, Swarthmore, Haverford, Bryn Mawr, Pomona, HMC, Reed, Carleton. You’ll note that students from three of these schools were Apker Award (the highest honor in the U.S. for undergraduate research in physics) finalists last year (https://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/201808/apker.cfm), while others have produced winners in other recent years.
Thanks everybody! These are all great suggestions. At this point, she’d prefer a bigger school (but I still want to hear about all the options). She’s not a competitive type- so a lesser known, less famous school might be better. She could probably do fine at most schools- SAT 1540, 4.0 unweighted at mediocre public high school (so not necessarily super prepared for college but capable), but not a lot of extracurriculars as she has a medical condition/ disability and school seems to be enough to do. Right now she’s considering Oregon State (our in state STEM school), University of Idaho and University of Texas/Dallas (thx to national merit scholarships).
The usual upper level physics courses for the physics major are:
- intermediate / advanced mechanics
- electromagnetism and optics (often two semesters)
- quantum mechanics (often two semesters)
- statistical and thermal physics
- intermediate / advanced lab
Check the frequency of offering.
Beyond those, consider what kind of additional upper level elective physics courses there are. Also consider what upper level math offerings there are, such as real and complex analysis, abstract algebra, differential equations, etc…
@xraymancs may be able to give more information on how to evaluate a physics department and major.
Thank you- I will write to that user and ask. Also thanks for the specific suggestions of classes and frequency!
I’d say it is possible to get a very solid physics education at just about any university. @ucbalumnus is correct that it is important to have certain upper division courses available and sometimes smaller universities do not have them. If you end up going to a research university, be it large (like Oregon State) or small (like Cal Tech or other AITU schools), those courses will be available.
Of course, programs like Harvey Mudd and a number of other small liberal arts colleges also do an excellent job in their undergraduate physics curriculum. What I usually suggest is to decide whether a smaller or larger school fits the student best and then make sure that all the necessary courses are offered each year. The rest is up to the student to take advantage of the opportunities afforded on campus and off campus (for example REU programs in the summer).
My ds majored in physics at the Alabama. He had a wonderfully supportive environment with profs who were great mentors. He jumped into research right away and spent most of his time working with a prof on the IceCube project which is particle research with a lot of computer modeling.
Ds was part of what was then CBH but is now called RRS, a research-focused honors program. He had a great peer group of friends. One of his female friends from CBH also majored in physics and is now at Harvard in their MD-PhD program ( https://www.ua.edu/news/2017/04/four-ua-students-named-goldwater-scholars-in-2017/ gives a little background on her. ) Ds is now at a top grad program for theoretical cosmology (I don’t really understand what he is pursuing, honestly 
)
Anyway, yes, larger schools with lesser known/less famous programs can definitely allow students to master physics and move on to their post-UG goals.
You might want to check out Brandeis. It’s a smaller school, but an R1 institution with a great reputation for science. There’s some cool stuff happening in physics that I don’t understand, but your child might.
Your daughter may also want to look into colleges that have been especially noted for their opportunities for faculty-mentored research/creative projects:
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/undergrad-research-programs
A few years ago I saw a ranking by the National Science Foundation (NSF) of the undergraduate origins of PhDs in Physics
1 CalTech
2 Harvey Mudd
3 MIT
4 Reed
5 U of Chicago
6 Rice
7 Carleton
8 Princeton
9 Harvard
10 Lawrence (WI)
Other schools that 've seen with a high %age of students getting their Physics PhD include Grinnell, Haverford, Swathmore, St. Olaf (MN)
One thing about smaller colleges with only (or mostly) undergrads, Physics majors can work on research projects at their own college with a professor starting day 1, or when they are ready. Often this research is published, so that an undergrad can have publication(s) even before attending grad school. For example several Carleton undergrads were co-authors on the groundbreaking (LIGO) Laser Interferometer Gravitational-Wave Observatory publications a few years ago. This research and publication would be much more difficult, if not impossible at many large research universities, as they have tons of grad students and post doctoral researchers higher up in the research food chain. Undergraduate research is usually the best determiner of sucess in a a STEM PhD program.
Wesleyan has had a remarkable string of finalists for the Apker prize, four (4) over the last ten years, including two winners:
http://newsletter.blogs.wesleyan.edu/2014/09/09/hanakatafinalist/
What’s more remarkable is that all of Wesleyan’s finalists were competing in the PhD-granting institutional category because, despite being a LAC, it does offer advanced degrees in STEM and ethnomusicology.
Wesleyan also received over $2.9 million in research in the physical sciences in FY17 which compares favorably with Harvey Mudd and similarly undergraduate focused small colleges:
Wesleyan
https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/profiles/site?method=report&fice=1424&id=h1
Harvey Mudd
https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/profiles/site?method=report&fice=1171&id=h1
Reed
https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/profiles/site?method=report&fice=3217&id=h2
Carleton
https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/profiles/site?method=report&fice=2340&id=h1
Amherst
https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/profiles/site?method=report&fice=2115&id=h1
It is also true, as @Mom2aphysicsgeek points out, that if a student is accepted in a research-focused honors program at a large research university, they may be able to perform undergraduate research, often from day one at their college. I’ve even heard of students starting on this research the summer between high school and the start of college.
Regarding getting a job, in most cases, for a progressive career in Physics (not engineering, computers, data, management or something else) with a Physics degree, it is necessary to earn a PhD. The terminal Physics degree isn’t usually enough in the Physics system, especially for particle Physics. Now for other careers like engineering, management, data sciences, etc. a Bachelor’s Degree may often be enough.
Schools that produce the most NSF Graduate Student Fellows in STEM (award to undergrads for graduate work). Proxy for size of program and strength of mentorship.
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19552850/#Comment_19552850
If she ends up being interested in liberal arts colleges (LACs), then check out these tables:
LACs that produce the most NSF Graduate Student Fellows in STEM
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19554928/#Comment_19554928
LACs that produce the most undergrads who go on to get PhD in STEM:
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19567186/#Comment_19567186
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19572642/#Comment_19572642
LAC future PhD production in STEM with per capita + info on which give merit aid
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19801988/#Comment_19801988
@CollegeGrad79 Yes, that list is a good one. My kid was admitted to Mudd, UChicago, Carleton, Swat, and Lawrence (and liked Reed, but didn’t apply). Any would have prepared her well for grad school, I think.
The flip side about research at a large university is that sometimes it is hard for undergrads to get meaningful experiences because the graduate students have a lot of the research funding (this is definitely true where my D is a grad student, undergrads have to scramble for lab spots). Also, an undergrad csn rarely interact with the lab professor (PI) when there are grad students in the mix. Of course there are exceptions. Honors programs can give more access, and some kids do break through if they are strong self advocates.