<p>I can't remember the words he used now, but when reading through it at the bookstore, I was appalled at some of his comments. I vaguely remember that he, either directly or indirectly, really put down other schools that didn't fit his own ideal of a college. I think one can write a book like this, without denigrating other schools in the process.</p>
<p>I remember also being very surprised by the inclusion of some schools. For example-- Reed? That's a very well known school-- unusual in some regards, certainly, but not really "out-of-the-box," is it? I would have thought it's a fairly competitive school as well. There were others, too, that surprised me, though I can't now remember them.</p>
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I vaguely remember that he, either directly or indirectly, really put down other schools that didn't fit his own ideal of a college. I think one can write a book like this, without denigrating other schools in the process.
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He's opinionated. If you don't like listening to opinionated people, then you're also going to find much to dislike when you get to college. You're past the point where people spoon-feed you material carefully calibrated not to offend anybody. At this point you're expected to use your powers of reason, to understand how an author or speaker's point of view may influence what is said, etc. Pope makes a strong case for small LACs. Is he right about everything he says? Probably not. Still his book is a useful tool for getting people to consider a wider range of schools, not just the 30 or so on everybody's "best" list.</p>
<p>I wouldn't recommend using Pope's book as your first book in learning about college admissions, or as your main book. But he lays out a viewpoint that gets people to think.</p>
<p>Yikes! I don't need to be "spoon-fed material carefully calibrated not to offend anybody". That doesn't mean that I or the other poster can't think that Pope does more harm than good by being so incredibly narrow-minded with his advice. To me, the theory of the book--great colleges for B students--is fantastic. But the presentation all but totally undermined the message for me, acknowledging the fact that I am not in his target audience.</p>
<p>But I think he went too far trying to reassure the "B-Students" that they could still be successful without going to an elite school. Of course, this is true, and something that "B-Students" would obviously like to know.</p>
<p>mikemac: That was my quote you boxed above. Thanks so much for the tutorial on what to expect when I get to college. Since I went decades ago (and did quite well, thanks--both in my undergraduate and graduate programs), I'll just ignore it-- as I did Pope's book. ;)</p>
<p>Ya, Mikemac, I'm not sure what was up with your pretentiousness. Jack was expressing HIS opinion about Pope's opinion. Is it unacceptable that he disagree with the guy?</p>
<p>Anyway...my friend lent me CTCL a few weeks ago. I looked at it briefly. My first impressions? While I supported Pope's bringing to the forefront several excellent schools for B/C students, I disagreed with Pope's assertions that the Ivy League and schools of similar caliber are of poorer quality than those advertised in CTCL. Pope implied that even A students couldn't "get out" of Harvard and Princeton and MIT what B-students could get out of Marlboro and Lynchburg. Methought: This is simply untrue. The science geek will get an unrivaled opportunity to do cutting-edge research at MIT, while he would be hard-pressed to find such an opportunity at a small liberal arts school in Virginia or Washington. Similarly, the student musician will enjoy the opportunity to play with world-class orchestras and study under internationally-renowned musicians at Yale School of Music, an opportunity that would rarely pop up in a school like Reed or St. John's. </p>
<p>After returning the book to my friend, I reassessed Pope's statements. I then realized, as I put myself into the shoes of that B/C student, why Pope persisted (sometimes annoyingly) in his assertions. So...why?</p>
<p>A marketing tactic for CTCL, pure and simple.</p>
<p>Imagine you are the B/C student who ranks somewhere in the median of his class, gets a decent, but barely above average, SAT/ACT score. You look at the students at the top of your class and visualize how successful they one day might be. Then Loren Pope tells you that you can be just as successful as your valedictorian/salutatorian peers. You don't have to go to an Ivy League school to get an Ivy-caliber education. What's more, you might even have a better intellectual and social experience by NOT going to an Ivy League school. Pope's denigration of the Ivy League, MIT, Stanford, however implied, is music to your ears. And when you hear what Pope has to share, you are enthusiastic to share this information with your not-so-high-achieving friends, and they, in turn, go out and purchase CTCL.</p>
<p>Whether or not Pope really believes what he says, he has certainly successfully marketed his book.</p>
<p>We are going to a CTCL programs soon and I thought I'd read some previous posts. I realize the book is geared for "B" students who can't get in to an Ivy League school, but does it mean that all of these schools are unacceptable? </p>
<p>I met a woman recently who is chief pediatric resident at Johns Hopkins and involved in research there. She graduated from Whitman College (a CTCL school) and was accept to Hopkins for med school. She spoke highly of her experience at Whitman. I know this is just one example, but maybe there are people out there whose "B" student attended a CTCL school and it allowed them to reach their potential. Just a thought.</p>
<p>I've read the thread, and have read both books - CTCL and Beyond the Ivy League. Both are out of date in terms of $$ figures they mention and this causes me to question how much of the rest is out of date.</p>
<p>I think they're both good books because they provide options beyond the most popular schools. I like "Beyond" because Pope provides very brief assessments of a large number of schools, including top/most popular schools. It's helpful in combination with other sources.</p>
<p>But I think that CTCL schools might be milking a cash cow that's long in the tooth...</p>
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She spoke highly of her experience at Whitman. I know this is just one example, but maybe there are people out there whose "B" student attended a CTCL school and it allowed them to reach their potential. Just a thought.
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Whitman's a great school, but it doesn't seem like a school for "B" students. </p>
<p>US News currently ranks Whitman at #37 among National LACs, with a Selectivity Rank of #33. Here at CC, Whitman is one of only 30 LACs to make the "CC Top Liberal Arts Colleges" list. </p>
<p>According to collegeboard.com, Whitman's freshman class had high school GPAs like this:</p>
<p>64% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher
19% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74
11% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49
5% had h.s. GPA between 3.0 and 3.24
1% had h.s. GPA between 2.5 and 2.99 </p>
<p>So for someone with a "B" (3.0) average in high school, the chances of admission to Whitman don't look too good. Maybe it was different in 1996, when CTCL was first published.</p>
<p>whitman is the toughest of the 40 in the book. and i doubt it will be in the next edition, along with a few others, for being too difficult to get in. </p>
<p>the purpose of the book is to show a number of excellent schools that you might not have heard about and arn't too difficult to get accepted to. </p>
<p>9 out of 13 colleges on my list are in the book. i really found it helpful as i have mediocre grades and cant get into the typical CCer's schools.</p>
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I know some people refuse to acknowledge it, but there ARE amazing colleges, even for the uber competitive applicant that aren't in the Ivy League.
<p>wow this book was suggested to me for achieving some safeties. as for opinions- I'd say it's a good way to find some unknown but very strong colleges, but it comes with a bias. This book should be for those excellent hs students looking for safeties or some sort of aid or for the B student, the above average student, that has a few accomplishments, underachieves a little, but still maintains over the norm in his school. For the C student none of these colleges would be a safety (unless recruit or coming from private school or there is some great circumstance)</p>