<p>I went to a CTCL (Knox) before there was CTCL. I didn’t know anything about it, and applied based on an offhand comment by my high school counselor. It turned out to be a good thing for me, and I’m glad these overlooked small colleges are getting more attention. Of the six schools my daughter is looking at, four are CTCL. (She didn’t pick them because they’re in that book, it just worked out that way.)</p>
<p>I completely agree with 2bizee as well! The arguments Pope makes against the name-brands and in favor of the quieter schools that put their heads down, work hard and do a great job make sense. He paints a calm, happy place to be amidst the college search/application frenzy. I read his books to bring down my blood pressure and to remind myself that we want to be in control of our choices. DD is at a CTCL and couldn’t be more happy and excited with her choice. I get the “pinch me, I can’t believe I’m here” texts that make my week! Can’t say everyone will have as good of an experience, but I hope so!!!</p>
<p>In our college search, so far all but 4 possibles of the 14 on my Jr.s list came as a result of the CTCL website and college fair. When you are looking for schools with less than 2000 people, this is a great place to start. We are visiting Beloit tomorrow and Wabash is already on top of the list, so based on financial aid, his choice will likely be a CTCL.</p>
<p>It would be helpful to hear about some specific schools alluded to in this thread. In my D’s case, she’s applying to two CTCLs, Clark and Goucher, and three other small liberal arts colleges (plus one small university). It’s always great to get specific feedback!</p>
<p>I wonder how much the CTCL people vet the colleges these days, and if the standards remain the same. You’d think they’d have dropped a couple and added a couple of new ones, but it seems to be the same forever. </p>
<p>We’ve had friends’ kids at various CTCLs: Hampshire, Earlham, Evergreen, Knox come to mind. While some had challenges (Evergreen’s lack of structure is great for some kids, hard for others, and Hampshire’s “freak factor” is sometimes offputting at first, although then kids seem to find their place), all have thrived.</p>
<p>Both our son and daughter attended CTCL fairs, and learned a lot about what they really value in a college as a result. Both our kids applied to several CTCL or CTCL-like colleges, and both ended up at Hampshire College. Our son graduated last year, and I can honestly say that his life was indeed dramatically changed over those four years. Of course, who can say how things would have been different at some other SLAC, but it sure worked out for him.</p>
<p>Our daughter is in her 2nd year and although she and her brother are polar opposites in many respects, it is quite evident that she too has already had several incredibly positive life-transforming experiences. </p>
<p>So, at least one of the CTCL colleges has worked well for our family. As others have noted, there are certainly other SLACs that have similar characteristics to Pope’s CTCL, and I would suggest using some or all of his criteria when evaluating college options.</p>
<p>That is an interesting choice for an LAC- coming from wa= what attracted your kids to " camp hamp" over say, Evergreen?</p>
<p>Both of my dds are attending CTCL schools:</p>
<p>Evergreen
Eckerd</p>
<p>The dd who is at Evergreen applied as a transfer student coming out of a local community college. It was the only school she applied to and she loves it there.</p>
<p>The dd who is at Eckerd applied to 4 schools, Eckerd was the only one on the CTCL list. She was accepted at all four and honestly chose Eckerd because of the scholarship she received (it was her number two choice). She likes it, not loves it.</p>
<p>why doesn’t the DD love Eckerd- what are the complaints- we looked at it and My D still mentions it- she is interested in Biology</p>
<p>For my oldest, who is now a freshman, we only looked at small LACs, and included Ursinus, McDaniel, Goucher and Hampshire which are part of the CTCL. She interviewed at all of them and was considering two of them. At the last minute we decided to look at a large public university. Lo and behold, the minute we parked the car she looked around and said, “this is my first choice!”. She is a freshman there now.</p>
<p>So, for her at least, she made an immediate switch, and is very very happy with her decision. Surprisingly, she was the one who wanted those small schools.</p>
<p>I graduated from a CTCL school before Pope wrote the book. Everything in the latest version (sans new freshmen seminar) accurately described my experience. I believe the book for my school accurately describes the current students’ experiences as well.</p>
<p>I agree with 2bizee – It is the questions Pope asks that are important. </p>
<p>The book is an amazing starting place to research LACs. I really like how the book highlights a school like Hampshire (lack of core requirements) and a school like St. John’s (no choice is study or shortcuts to take classes outside of the college). </p>
<p>Today’s students are fortunate to have many resources available for exploring colleges.</p>
<p>I’m cynical, but that is just because we found that my son could be utterly ignored by the faculty at a CTCL school just the same as at a big state school, only at more than twice the price.</p>
<p>I love Pope’s overall message but I wish someone would look at every school with his ideals in mind-- some of his do not live up to the criteria, in my view, while there are many others, unmentioned in CTCL, that might.</p>
<p>missypie</p>
<p>I would be cynical too!</p>
<p>I think your family’s experience is the important type of info the OP is seeking. And certainly something others should hear. </p>
<p>I was an engaged student. I sought out professors. I attended most classes and participated. The difference between my experience and friends’ who attended state flagship was that they did not have the opportunity for many discussion based classes, especially freshmen year. And with the exception of one, never knew their profs. However, if I didn’t put forth the effort then I would have had a much different experience. Not saying that missypie’s kid didn’t attempt to engage; just stating I could have gotten through school without making connections if I choose to and wound up with same diploma/GPA but much different experience.</p>
<p>Which to me brings the entire discussion back to fit.</p>
<p>Previous suggestion of an “updated” CTCL list intigues me. Anyone care to share their personal life-changing college choices – or give the thumbs up to any of those schools already on the list? My daughter wants a smaller, more initimate environment, and has already done a great job of identifying those school that are most difficult to gain admittance to and/or cost the most…</p>
<p>No matter where you go, college SHOULD change your life.</p>
<p>None of the schools on the list held any real interest for my daughter. But the book did bring cause a lot of discussion about what kind of school she was interested in. So, as far as the book the book went, it did it’s job. </p>
<p>She ended up going to a small private school instead of the large state school that she was originally thinking about. The private school offered enough aid to make it about a wash financially. She is well into her freshman year and loving it.</p>
<p>“why doesn’t the DD love Eckerd- what are the complaints- we looked at it and My D still mentions it- she is interested in Biology”</p>
<p>I think it’s that she still thinks she would have been happier at her first choice, which was Lewis & Clark in Portland, Oregon. She misses the west coast, and isn’t that fond of Florida.</p>
<p>But that said, she really likes her classes and professors, and has had some amazing opportunities. She was in the school choir last year and they went to New Orleans to perform. This year the choir is going to Spain (dd isn’t in it this year). She spent 2 1/2 weeks in Geneva as part of a class she took Spring term and this Winter will be going to the Sundance Film Festival as part of her Winter Term class.</p>
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<p>My child did not attempt to engage. He has Asperger’s Syndrome…even if a prof only has a dozen students in his class, mine would be the last he would seek out…so it matters not if there are 12 kids in the class or 300. I really fell for the personal attention line…I mean, if a prof is your academic advisor and knows you have Asperger’s and know that you aren’t doing any of the online quizzes, I thought that maybe possibly a teacher at a tiny college would be more likely to say something than the teacher at a large U. But in reality, teachers at both large Us and small LACs can not give a flip and teachers at both large Us and small LACs can be terrifically caring.</p>
<p>Well said, Missypie-- that’s why I wish for a much broader guide written with Pope’s ideals. Each institution has its own ideals and they get played out all the way down the line, I think. Why visits are so important. I feel bad for your son-- I hope he’s found some more concerned folks further on in life.</p>
<p>emeraldkity4:
“That is an interesting choice for an LAC- coming from wa= what attracted your kids to “camp hamp” over say, Evergreen?”</p>
<p>That is a good question, and, as the one who is paying the tuition, a question that I asked on several occasions. Evergreen might have been the only public college on the CTCL list? As such, it is an incredible bargain for an in-stater desiring an SLAC-type experience on a public school budget. </p>
<p>I think that one of the problems with Evergreen (in my kids’ eyes) was that it was too close to home (a little over an hour’s drive), and too many of their friends were headed there. Granted, more kids from our high school went to UW or WWU, but a bunch wanted to be 'Greeners too. So, it did not fit in well with the life-changing theme to hang out with old friends. </p>
<p>There were some more substantive reasons as well. I think that the biggest difference is the degree-planning systems. At Evergreen, you get an adviser who helps plan your curriculum, but there are few graduation requirements, other than accumulating enough credits. In contrast, Hampshire has an involved process of achieving goals through three series (Divisions) of coursework. Students plan their goals with a committee of faculty advisers, and then must show that those goals have been achieved through coursework and portfolios.</p>
<p>Lastly, Hampshire has a huge advantage over Evergreen in being part of the, “5 College Consortium” with Smith, Mt. Holyoke, Amherst and UMass. Both our kids had some narrow interests (Western Africa, Judaic Education) that would have been hard or impossible to pursue at Evergreen. Our kids were able to find obscure classes at one of the 5 colleges for virtually any interest.</p>
<p>Of course, in the end, neither of our kids continued to pursue those interests and went in completely different directions (life-changing, right?), but they still had many more options available to them. </p>
<p>Was it worth it the extra cost and travel? We will never know for sure - Evergreen was certainly a viable choice and if we had not been willing to go into some substantial debt to finance the extra cost, then it would have been a compelling choice.</p>
<p>I will say that although I researched colleges extensively, I realized after the fact that we were looking at exactly the wrong type of schools. If anyone else out there is thinking CTCL due to learning differences or related issues, please be willing to consider that a small, rather selective LAC might be exactly the wrong place.</p>
<p>First, many students have very lopsided abilities. If your child is one of those students, a “well balanced” liberal arts education may be exactly the wrong thing.</p>
<p>Second, selective and moderately selective schools - esp small ones - often do not have the extensive tutoring programs that larger, less selective schools have. If a student is having trouble in a class, “well, find a tutor to hire” may not be the answer you expect, but it may be the answer you receive.</p>