<p>One solution to the decreased amount of course choices at a SLAC is to go to one that is part of a cross-registration consortium. When we were looking at colleges, we were quite taken with the 5-College Consortium in Massachusetts, the Claremont Colleges in California and the Quaker Consortium in Pennsylvania. The first and last of these consortia involve a big university where you can take pretty much anything.</p>
<p>also in PA, the Lehigh Valley Association of Independent Colleges which includes Lehigh, Lafayette, Cedar Crest, DeSales, Moravian and Muhlenberg allow for cross registration.</p>
<p>“This is a bigger, not a smaller, problem at small schools. There is often only one professor in charge of a subfield.”</p>
<p>I disagree because a student at a small school can plan out courses with their advisor well in advance. The advisors are much more on top of their students. At a big school advisors are useless. I think it is a big reason why the big schools % of students graduating in 4 years is much lower.</p>
<p>Cross-registration–at most of the schools that offered this that we looked at, when you really looked at the logistics of making it happen, I wonder how many students really end up doing it? It seemed like a lot to figure out sometimes (shuttle bus to the other campus, different start/end of term, conflicting finals, etc)</p>
<p>“a student at a small school can plan out courses with their advisor well in advance. The advisors are much more on top of their students. At a big school advisors are useless.”</p>
<p>Oh, please. Individual experiences with advising are all over the map at schools of every size, as posters in this thread have confirmed. But even if it were true that advising is always better at small schools, advising can’t solve the problem of missing courses. You generally don’t know your freshman year that you’re going to want to take a Mood Disorders research seminar as part of your psychology major – you haven’t even chosen a major yet. So you won’t be able to plan to take it sophomore year, before the prof goes on sabbatical. And even if you* have* chosen your major as a freshman, and you do know from the get-go that you’ll want to take Mood Disorders, you have to take Psych 101, Abnormal Psych, and Statistics before you can enroll in an advanced research seminar, so you probably can’t take it sophomore year anyway.</p>
<p>Now, consortia do help a lot with this. The scheduling/logistical headaches can be significant, but it can often be done.</p>
<p>I tend to agree with Hanna, at small schools sabbaticals become an issue. Frequently there is only 1 or 2 professors teaching a particular subfield and you don’t usually know in advance that they’re taking sabbatical (the prof may know, but they don’t always share that with students ahead of time, and they don’t usually share it with people outside of their department, so if your advisor isn’t in that department). </p>
<p>In general, the tradeoff with small schools is often breadth for depth. You can study almost anything you want, but within that school and that teaching staff, you may not be able to go as deep as you want. </p>
<p>For example, I was a Government major at Smith. It’s a very large department. Tons of classes. Very strong. But I wanted to do a concentration in Middle Eastern Studies. Were there Middle Eastern politics, history, religion and language classes to be had at Smith? Absolutely. But pretty soon I had gone through many of them and I still had a few years of school left. So you get creative. Smith is n the Five College Consortium, so that’s a big help. I was able to design two special studies courses in history, where I basically got to work with my favorite prof just reading and researching the things I was most interested in. Then I decided to study abroad at a University that specialized in Middle Eastern studies. </p>
<p>So with small schools one of the things to look at is not just “what are the available courses/professors” but also, what are the expansion possibilities. I knew what I was getting into at Smith. They could not afford to keep a huge staff of Middle Eastern experts on just for my edification. I wanted a small school, and that means fewer professors. But it also means good advising that was willing to work with me to pursue my goals. It means flexibility and personal attention. In Smith’s case it means great study abroad support. </p>
<p>But I also agree with Hanna that small schools don’t automatically equal great advising. Smith is known for its advising, but every school has its duds.</p>
<p>Smithieandproud: My mom and sister are both Smithies (and very proud.) Class of '50 and '76. My father’s cousin is also a Smithie and she was very close friends with Sylvia Plath. She donated the letters Sylvia wrote to her when she was in London to Smith a few years ago. But I digress…</p>
<p>…and still disagree re the advising and ones ability to not get closed out of required courses one needs for their major or to fulfill other requirements to graduate. </p>
<p>I don’t know anyone (and I know tons of people with tons of kids) who went to SLAC and didn’t graduate in 4 years. OTOH, I know tons of people (including myself) and their kids who it took 5-6 years to graduate at big schools. The ones at small school were able to finish in 4 years even with going abroad their juniors years. </p>
<p>That is my opinion and no one has to put any stock in it if they don’t want. That is why there are apples and oranges.</p>
<p>My kid attends a small school, although not a CTCL school. He loves the small environment. My son likes class discussion, wants to know his professors, wants easy access to professor office hours (you can get this at large Us too), prefers writing papers and essays to MC exams and he does not want to remain anonymous in the classroom. He is very outgoing. He is there for 2 mos. and he has already had a meal with one of his professors. </p>
<p>I am not saying that everything has gone perfectly, but he is just so happy and loving his experience so far.</p>
<p>I will also add that my son is not in as isolated an environment as some of the CTCL schools. I do think this is a plus, but not as major of a factor as I thought it would be. There is something to be said for easy access to food and clothing stores, pharmacy, and office/school supply chain without having a car.</p>
<p>For those of you looking for a book that describes schools in a vein similar to that of CTCL, I’ve been recommending this one for any B students, [Amazon.com:</a> Finding the College That’s Right for You! (0639785387336): John Palladino: Books: Reviews, Prices & more](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Finding-College-Thats-Right-You/dp/0071423060/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1288919459&sr=1-3]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/Finding-College-Thats-Right-You/dp/0071423060/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1288919459&sr=1-3) </p>
<p>I think finding the best fit is figuring out priorities. For my son, he says it’s the program, project vs. test oriented evaluations and connecting with the professors. Figuring that out took quite a few visits to different colleges. I would ask my son on the ride home if he could see himself at the college and several times he would say he didn’t know because all he saw were buildings and didn’t really talk to a professor or student. So then we started making a point, i.e. not leaving, until we found someone to talk to. I’ve also promised follow up visits once he gets some acceptances.</p>
<p>one school my child is looking at is Lawrence University. It is one of the ctcl schoolss. Does anyone have feedback on LU? She hopes to get in the Conservatory double degree program. She had great interview but is concerned about the school size and the town. Also looking at wesleyan and oberlin</p>
<p>Futureholds: I like Lawrence, too. I applied already for fall 2011. CC has a good thread on Lawrence you should check out. It has some great alums who seem eager to answer specific questions like this. Click on Discussion Home (to the left on your screen) and then under Colleges and Universities look for Lawrence in the Alphabetical List.</p>
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<p>I really have to call out gross oversimplifications like this. I am really sorry your big university experience was so terrible but that does not at all generalize to most. </p>
<p>Not all big schools have ‘huge lecture classes’ only ‘taught by TAs’. This is mythology. I have taught at several big schools. Tons of bigger schools have many smaller programs, many have pretty excellent size classes (look at the percentage of class size being under 20 in the USNWR if you are curious). And every tenure track professor I know teaches undergrads, lots in the early courses simply because they are so plentiful. Some of our award winning teachers however are PhD students and longterm sessionals who take their teaching very seriously. Heck, I won a teaching award of MBAs as a PhD student at the most selective business school in the country. And this will be a shocker to some, but most of the award winning researchers are actually fantastic teachers! I know it runs against the grain of myth, but it’s been demonstrated many times over. </p>
<p>And what is this about ‘only’ assistant professors or associates teaching, and not full professors? The only difference is tenure based on research! I’m a full professor but I ask, why on earth would students be disadvantaged being taught by assistant or associate professors? And how then does that compare to professors at LACs who do not have to do research? And do you really think assistant and associate and visiting professors do not teach at LACs? </p>
<p>I was just talking to a colleague about her undergraduate experience. She went to a highly regarded 1500 person LAC that I think my son would love, and I went to a large public university. She said “oh I knew my professors and could talk to them any time”. I thought to myself “me too”. She said “I had to do a thesis at the end of my degree”. I thought to myself, “yup, me too, I did a 4th year thesis” She added, “even though I was an undergrad, I got to do research”. I said silently, “same here”. </p>
<p>My point being, we both had great experiences, we both got into top graduate schools, we both became professors ourselves. Our schools were night and day on the surface but we got out of them much of the same experience. It really depends only on what a kid wants to do and where they feel most comfortable. And there is a tremendous variety of ‘large publics’ just like there is a tremendous variety of ‘small schools’ so these gross generalizations of criticism do not help anyone.</p>
<p>Could you please tell me what school your S or D is attending? Is it in the northeast as your name implies and what is your students major? Thanks in advance.</p>
<p>It is not necessarily easy to cross-register for a course at a nearby consortium college, but kids do it all the time in the 5 College Consortium. Virtually every student that I’ve met at Hampshire has taken at least one course at another college, and many have taken several. My son took 2 courses each at Mt. Holyoke and Smith, and 4 courses at UMass. Although these colleges do start and end at different times, those dates are within days of each other. There are free buses that shuttle frequently between all 5 colleges.</p>
<p>Also, it is not just the availability of courses, but access to libraries and cultural and academic events that makes such consortia so enriching.</p>
<p>I had never heard of CTCL until I joined CC last year. When I was in high school, I applied to 3 schools - 2 CTCL,(Juniata and Ursinus) and the other CTCL-like,(Albright). I ended up at the one that was not in the CTCL book. </p>
<p>I loved being at a LAC. The relationships I had with my professors, the classroom discussions, the friendly atmosphere,etc. were all just right for me. I had no issues with scheduling classes, so much so, that I was able to graduate in 3 years.</p>
<p>A few people here are mentioned the cost of LAC, but in my experience, with the scholarships and institutional merit aid, the LAC were significantly less costly than the potential cost to attend the state sponsored-public. Even my COA here at the community college, where I started taking courses this summer, is significantly higher than what I was paying to attend my LAC, (although it is 7 years later, so this isn’t entirely fair.)</p>
<p>If the fit is right for your student, LACs can be a great opportunity, whether they happen to have been chosen for this book or not.</p>
<p>I have twins. One at Smith, and the other at Earlham. They both love their schools. Both a liberal LACs. Both have rigorous academics. Both have lots of opportunity for student research and international study.</p>
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<p>Just make sure she loves the prof or profs in her area.</p>
<p>My neighbors both went there. Their D was very excited about going there. She was a trumpet major. There was one trumpet prof. She loved the school but hated the trumpet prof, so she left after one year.</p>
<p>That is the thing about many of these small schools. They may just have a few faculty members in an area. If you don’t click with them, there aren’t other options.</p>
<p>Starbright, that is your opinion and you certainly have the right to hold that. My experience as a student at U of Colorado, Syracuse University and U of Chicago suggest otherwise. </p>
<p>If my son wanted to be at big school that would be fine with me - it’s his decision, not mine. As I said in my post there are pros and cons to both.</p>
<p>Re not graduating in four years:</p>
<p>Unless a student radically changes majors late in the program, not getting into necessary classes and taking 5-6 years to graduate can be an issue at “big” schools like Berkeley and Texas, NOT “big” schools like Penn and Georgetown…which are usually the kind of “big” schools being compared to the CTCL on CC. Elite private universities could never get away with that. There is no way parents would pay another $50,000 for an additional year of school because the college denied required courses.</p>
<p>Georgetown, Penn, etc. are medium sized schools, imo, not big schools. Perhaps we are not all on the same page.</p>