<p>Does that mean that all of these $25K to $30K loan stories are parent loans to help with EFC, and are never considered part of aid? Thanks for clarifying this.</p>
<p>Any school meeting less than 100% of demonstrated need, gaps. It is up to the family to figure out how to fill the gap along with filling the EFC.</p>
<p>A family taking out loans of 25/30k could be paying both their EFC and the GAP, not filled by financial aid.</p>
<p>There are schools that will have an efc, max out the student on loans and still have a gap of unmet need, where parents are taking out loans.</p>
<p>kleibo raises a good point that there are many public schools that will give the “worse” packages where the family may have to take out all loans. This can very easily happen to a family that is not pell grant eligible, the student receives no merit money, and the family cannot afford to pay out of pocket and will have to take out loans.</p>
<p>I have had a number of students accepted to SUNY (in-state), who were not pell grant eligible/ did not receive TAP or EOP. Unless they are submitted to the Honors program where there will be a couple of dollars in grant aid , whose parents are full freight payers. Remember not every full freight family has the funds to write the check , so they end up borrowing to meet their EFC and monies not included in their FA package.</p>
<p>Another example that I can think of is NYU. They currently have a COA of ~$53,000.</p>
<p>a select group of students may end up getting one of their biggest scholarships of 25k (merit)</p>
<p>53,000 -25k =28k</p>
<p>The balance of the 28k (which would include the EFC and gap) for a student who is not pell eligible or is not admitted through HEOP could very easily this amount in a combination of stafford loans and plus loans.</p>
<p>Okay, I think I see the nuance now. Schools that meet 100% of Common Data Set need cannot include huge loans ($25k+) to meet need, and the small loans (~$5k) the schools arrange as part of meeting 100% of Common Data Set need are student loans, not parent loans.</p>
<p>Most of the schools on the list are pretty good with the aid and keep
the loans reasonable - but reasonable these days is a 3500 stafford sub
and 2000 unsub stafford for the first year and a total (with interest) of
around $28,000 over 4 years. Some schools like Gettysburg will also loan
their own funds to students - still counted as full need met - and you will
end up with 7000 in loans for the first year. Other schools include heavy
work study over $2000 a year and still more will require a student contribution
sometimes as much as $4,000. All this results in a wide range of debt levels
at the 100% need based schools - $30,000 rochester vs $10,000 at Williams.
Just because a school is 100% need doesn’t mean you’ll get a good package.</p>
<p>One interesting thing about EFC, FM (federal method) vs IM (institutional method). IM often results in higher EFC, as it usually assumes that the student can make a couple thousand dollars over the summer, etc. This assumption is not terribly bad, but it still does mean roughly 2000 more dollars you will have to pay out of pocket.</p>
<p>Having said that, which schools follow which methods? Private schools are more likely to follow IM. There are only two public colleges in the United States that meets 100% need (as long as one applies for financial aid in time), and both follow FM: The University of Virginia and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.</p>
<p>Funny thing about that IM and FM - our IM is actually less than our FM because basically of low assets and our University that says they use IM. After receiving our FA package and seeing that they used the FM to determine our package, I asked that they use the IM and they would not because they said they could not go below the FM because they accept federal money. So I guess the IM is used only when it benefits the University…ie. higher EFC. And most likely there are more people out there with a higher IM than FM.</p>
<p>I read a post where a parent at a school where her son was expected to make 4-5 thousand one summer and couldn’t. His area had few jobs and he was competing with a lot of unemployed job-seekers of all ages. He was able to make 2,000 at a grocery store, but had to take a private loan to fill the gap…they didn’t care, numbers are numbers.
I never counted workstudy, depending on the school, it isn’t promised you will get a job or the hours and although some students deposit their checks at the business office, most use it for pocket money during the year.</p>
<p>You also have to know what % of students receive 100% aid.</p>
<p>A true 100% need university (and there really aren’t many of them) will meet 100% need for all students that require it.</p>
<p>Very important to check what the schools expect as student contributions. Most of these “meets full need schools” expect the STUDENT to be making a contribution and the amount typically increases as the kid progresses through school. This is good info to know up front.</p>
<p>That’s good advice. Some schools are more upfront about it, others you have to search. I know at Bryn Mawr I saw a chart that went from Freshman to Senior but this is all I saw in a quick look today as an example:
Bryn Mawr students are expected to contribute
to the cost of their education, and to apply for federal
and state aid programs. The minimum expected contribution
from summer savings is $2,000 for firstyear
students. Incremental increases for upperclass
students may be expected annually. A student who
chooses not to work, is unable to work or unable to
save from summer earnings may be able to borrow
to fill the gap or to work more during the academic
year. The College will not offer additional grant
assistance to replace the summer savings obligation,
nor will the College replace state grant funds
forfeited due to a late state grant application. Each
student is also expected to contribute at least onefourth
of any personal assets held in her name at the
time of her initial application for each year that aid is
received.</p>
<p>Yes, I believe it is almost always better take assets out of childrens name and put in parents name.</p>
<p>Thanks for the list, Calreader - I’m researching into each of those school’s need programs to find out their details so that I can share this information with people in my community! I don’t want others to make the same false notions that they need to go to a public university if cost is truly an issue.</p>
<p>
I’ve been looking at each of these schools and none of them do that. The ones that do cover your need with a loan have it capped because they usually use a Stafford loan of some sort, which are capped.</p>
<p>
Not all of them use an institutional method, and I believe that the institutional method is somewhat standardized at some schools. I keep reading about these “widely accepted” formulas (but I have yet to see it).</p>
<p>
I’d really like to see a school that does that. So far, none of the ones on that list do that (that I’ve seen - I still have about 10 left to go through).</p>
<p>
Was that a need-based package that was the best? My best financial deal in high school was an ROTC scholarship - definitely merit-based.</p>
<p>
Although PLUS loans are financial aid, I don’t think they count as meeting a student’s need.</p>
<p>
Again, please show me a school that does that…</p>
<p>
What about work-study? I have yet to find a school that doesn’t meet one’s need with work-study. I’ve found a few that don’t use loans and only use grants and work-study, but I haven’t found one that uses only grants…</p>
<p>
Could you name a school that has a 4k+ summer earnings expectation? I would believe 2k summer earnings + 2k work study, but not 4k summer earnings.</p>
<p>So far, I’ve found two extreme examples of schools that meet full need. The first is the best I’ve seen (on paper) and that’s Princeton. They are completely need-blind, they have an adjusted COA for personal expenses, books, etc. that is very respectable: $3,600 (and that doesn’t even include the variable travel allowance). Although they require summer earnings, according to their website, “Sometimes a grant replaces the summer earnings expectation” for various situations, and all need is met without loans.</p>
<p>The “bad” example I’ve found is Thomas Aquinas College, which says “Financial aid is available from the College for the expenses of tuition, room and board.” To me, that means that they don’t include an estimate of personal exspenses and books and travel for the purposes of awarding financial aid. They have a summer earnings expectation and don’t allow people to have cars on campus if they are need-based financial aid!!! Their logic is that families should be putting maximum effort towards the cost of their education (which they define only as tuition, room and board, as stated earlier) and if they’re financing maintenance on a car throughout the year, then they aren’t putting maximum effort towards their student’s cost of education… Additionally, I believe some need is met through unsubsidized loans since it wasn’t stated otherwise.</p>
<p>Thanks a lot for the replies - I know I wasn’t replying initially, but I will read all responses and put this information toward the benefit of others!</p>
<p>from a 100% need college</p>
<p>"The minimum student income contributions from financial aid recipients by class are:</p>
<p>First Year
$1,900
Sophomore
$2,000
Junior
$2,100
Senior
$2,200"</p>
<p>Now that’s the minimum</p>
<p>If your student has the stats to get into Princeton you don’t need to worry about
this kind of stuff - the very top colleges offer very generous packages, it’s when you
start to go down the list that things change. You’ll find at places like BC, Wake,
Gettysburg that the finaid package is a lot different than Princeton or Williams or
Cal Tech and it’s not always on the web site.</p>
<p>I would have said that only around 10%-20% of students with the stats to get into Princeton actually get in. Also, it’s the size of the endowment that drives lack of student contributions, not school ranking or quality (though there is often a correlation). The reason that schools with limited endowments require student contributions and/or loans is to spread available funds so that more needy students can attend.</p>
<p>As far as UVA and UNC using FM, I do know that UVA has their own form that requires additional information so it’s not really FM. </p>
<p>Also, there really isn’t a standard formula. Our contribution ranged about $10,000 from the most to the least generous school (ruling out the two schools which she turned down before receiving the aid packages). One way that you know the formula isn’t very standard is that the CSS allows schools to add their own questions. So if your kid applies to a bunch of schools (like mine did), you will have a list of questions that say, “This question is required by College XYZ and ABC.” Just do your best to include a financial safety and best of luck!</p>
<p>My eldest went to Colgate (graduated 2008), and all we ever had to pay was the EFC.</p>
<p>The only loans she took were the Federal Direct Loans. The difference was made up of grants.</p>
<p>That being said, they are not need blind at admission. They only admit a small percentage of need students so that they can continue to maintain providing 100% of need.</p>
<p>“so that they can continue to maintain providing 100% of need” sounds like total
horsepoop.</p>
<p>On the contrary, schools being able to say that they provide 100% of need is an important selling point to needy prospies. Schools that “gap” are routinely criticized for it, even if they remain popular, like NYU.</p>