@sentimentGX4 wrote:
“… UVa, New York University, Boston College, etc. You probably won’t end up on Wall Street …”
Boy, that’s sure off the mark for NYU, which is a top feeder school for Wall Street. Number 2, behind Columbia, according to this study:
@sentimentGX4 I hope you go to Harvard with all of that attitude you have. Probably don’t go to any top 30 school for that matter. You are wholly misinformed, UVA Darden, NYU Stern are two of the most reputable business schools in the country that have a pipeline to many Wall Street firms.
@much2learn wait… folks in your neck of the woods don’t know Brown is an Ivy but know the Patriot league (and put American U on par with… Penn?) Now you’re just trolling me! Lol.
Seriously though, NESCAC is only real competition top to bottom. UAA a close second. But I’ll bet you dollars to donuts, that even if they can’t name more than 4 of the ancient 8, folks world wide would recognize the “Ivy League” by a factor of “a really, really huge amount” versus NESCAC or UAA…
It’s been a fun distraction reading those old NYT articles. Alabama complaining about not getting invited to Rose Bowl to play UWash. All the “Ivy” league college presidents going hunting together in 1936 to decide if they should form an official “Ivy League” (decided against it… apparently didn’t shoot anyone either…)
@whatisyourquest @sentimentGX4
Yeah, that statement re. NYU not even vaguely true. Here’s Poets & Quants guide to UG feeders to Wall Street. (NYU #2 after Penn by their metric. Ivies only 6 of top 10.)
https://poetsandquantsforundergrads.com/2015/02/04/the-top-feeder-schools-to-wall-street/
And fairly expansive rating of undergrad business schools.
Stern #2 for employment
Uva #5
Same even more true for those schools’ MBAs: again from Poets & Quants:
“At Columbia, the top finance fields are investment banking (13.9%) and investment management (10.9%). But NYU Stern dominates investment banking, sending aa whopping 28.2% of its MBAs into this sub-sector. And in a bit of a surprise, UCLA Anderson sends almost as many MBAs (10.5%) into investment banking as Yale SOM (11.7%).”
https://poetsandquants.com/2017/04/17/draft-wall-street-gets-finance-mbas/2/
If you want the “Ivy” feel of Columbia/Penn’s business/entrepreneur/Wall Street crowd, NYU will come closer than Dartmouth, despite a lot of other very obvious differences.
So now “feel” means “future destinations”??
Columbia and Penn have real campuses, with footpaths and nice buildings. Though their extent is obviously quite different, the appearance and feel of these places, for the time one spends there ,at least, is likely not dissimlar to how I “feel” at Cornell.
NYU has no campus. Walking from class to class at NYU is like walking to any other building in NYC. You walk on city sidewalks, not grass-bordered walkways. It does not “feel”, by my sensibilities, anything like those other schools. It feels more like a commuter school.
I’m talking about the student experience there, not future destinations.
One should also be aware that not all “Wall Street” jobs are the same. And, as I understand it, these days the term “investment banking” is applied to functions that it used to cover, but also to a bunch of jobs that used to be covered under the less-prestigious “commercial banking” field.
Wall Street hires janitors, these people do not all go to HYP. They hire back-office people, computer people ,accountants, etc… Also not HYP. Not all jobs are the same. There is even stratification among various “line” jobs. These are not all the same either. When I was there the most elite jobs were not equitably distributed among colleges.
It’s amazing how many people on this site will spend hours arguing “facts” that have little or nothing to do with the OP’s post and subsequent clarifications. The topics on this site that seem to live eternally are those that have no right answer, but thousands of best opinions. Which college library has supported the best nobel prize winners of all time who contributed the most to humanity? The thread would live on for eternity with “proof” provided by graduate school admissions officers, the US librarians guild, and the library of Congress borrowing record. It’s crazy.
The OP’s most recent post:
. It’s a reasonable question based on the assumption that the Ivy League is a place of serious learning (despite being an athletic conference). Answering that question is entirely based on personal experience, leaving the few thousand people here enough leeway to opine on their personal preferences and decision history. There is no right answer when asking the question because there are too many assumptions required.
The real answer to the OP is do some research. Posting a generic question isn’t research. There are dozens of schools that provide students with a rigorous academic experience that could be generalized as “Ivy League-esque”. What size school do you want, where do you want to be geographically, what type of local environment, what can you afford and what major will all impact the results.
Which of your 8 children is most like me, and would they be the same if they grew up with families?
party pooper…
“And in a bit of a surprise, UCLA Anderson sends almost as many MBAs (10.5%) into investment banking as Yale SOM (11.7%).”
That shouldn’t be a surprise to anybody, UCLA has one the best business schools for finance in the country, probably top 5 along with Chicago, Penn, Harvard, Columbia. The surprise is that Yale sends as many.
I don’t know if you’ve been to Dartmouth, but it “feels” nothing like Columbia, despite footpaths and campus. I’d sy the same for Cornell, though you obviously disagree. I thought UMich/Ann Arbor “felt” much more like Cornell than Penn or Columbia ever did.
But we’ve beat this horse to death. There are tons of serious academic schools out there and it is really helpful for prospective students to add more detail to their search, which I’m sure the OP has figured out by now.
@calidad2020 " NESCAC is only real competition top to bottom. UAA a close second"
For pure academics, I agree. NESCAC and UAA schools do a great job of academics and tend to be great places for students going to grad school.
Academics and direct grad school placement
Patriot League schools however tend to excel at practical majors for students and placing students who don’t plan to go to grad school right away into solid jobs with good salaries. As a league, only the Ivies do that better.
Average Salaries
@Much2learn I meant, of course, in terms of academic branding. You just don’t hear a lot of kids anywhere asking “do I have the scores to get into a UAA school!” or “I need to get up to a 3.75 to go to the Patriot League” (although, in both cases they should!) I’d guess as far as entry stats, NESCAC are probably +/- a few % points of the Ivy League. UAA also pretty close. Patriot League quite a bit below, but I’ll admit to not having run the numbers so I could be off there.
If NESCAC had picked a better name - The Thinker’s League, Pure Academics Conference. The Tweed League! Pampered Preppies Conference. they might have gotten more traction. UAA too. “Engineering Conference” “STEM League” “Southern + Midwest Ivy League.” “Best of the Fly-Over League…” Something snappy.
@calidad2020 “although, in both cases they should!” lol
Agreed about the naming. Ivy League, UAA or NESCAC, which would a marketing firm think is better? Hmm…
I have to go with the “Best of the Fly-Over League.” I like that one!
Patriot League isn’t bad, but no one knows the name except cc: geeks. It is no small accomplishment to have the highest avg. salaries outside the Ivy League though.
What I didn’t agree with earlier was probably more of a semantic difference than anything. It was really just the phrase “Aggressive Branding” related to the Ivy League brand.
Sure, It is a brand, and a very strong one, but I don’t see them marketing it aggressively like I see ads for the Big Ten, for example. I am not really sure how the brand became so strong. I think they probably should market it more aggressively than they do.
I mean, why not? Who wouldn’t? 8 small to mid-sized schools, who take all combined admit about 15,000 out of the 3.5 million students heading to college every year, but have managed to graduate the last 5 presidents, the entire supreme court and a large share of the country’s billionaires. What other conference would not market the crap out of that?
“Not Like Ivy at All But in Like Ivy Lists to Bolster Bruised Egos” - UC Berkeley, University of Michigan, etc. These are pretty good schools; but, are not like Ivy Leagues at all. You will be mired with school work and overworked your 4 years. Then you won’t even end up with a cushy Wall Street job."
Fascinating insight. Meanwhile, 34 of last year’s Ross’s 500 graduating BBAs joined Goldman Sachs. JP Morgan and Morgan Stanley, and another 20 ended up at other BB Investment Banks like Citi, Deutsche, BoA etc… Ross is one of the most heavily recruited programs in the country. So are McIntire and Stern.
By the way, there is nothing “cushy” about Wall Street jobs. Analysts are worked 80 hours per week and barely earn $100k/year (bonuses included). That’s not great by NYC standards. After tax and rent, analysts aren’t left with that much money.
The correct salary list:
1 Patriot
2 Ivy
3 ACC
4 UAA
5 Big 10
6 New England Women’s Men’s …
7 Pac12
8 SEC
9 Big 12
10 AAC
11 Conference USA
12 Big East
13 Missouri Valley
14 Big sky
15 Horizon
…
@greymeer What is your source? I used the salaries pubished in The Economist rankings. The Ivy League was a clear first with Harvard, Penn, Columbia, Princeton, and Cornell all having very strong numbers.
The UAA was also above the ACC.
If you are going to rank conferences by starting salary, all you mostly are doing is ranking which conferences have the largest percentage of undergraduate business majors who go straight to their careers, and the smallest percentage of students who choose to go to graduate school.
Re: branding, I thought the UAA was known as The Egghead Eight?
Hadn’t heard that but I sure hope/wish it is/was!
Pick up the book The Hidden Ivies 3rd edition. It profiles 63 great schools with ‘Ivy’ characteristics