<p>Comparatively at UC Riverside, an unremarkable state school, the average GPA was 2.74 in 2000.</p>
<p>Of course, it all depends on how you define inflation. You could either define it relative to a C curve at that school, or relative to some theoretical standard of quality, which would mean better schools SHOULD have higher averages.</p>
<p>There is no school where it is well nigh impossible to get an A. In addition to the schools already mentioned, Wake Forest, Reed, and Cornell are known for low grading. Also, look out for Princeton and Boston University- they have just started to enforce quotas on A grades. Some top public universities are also hard- Berkeley, Michigan, UNC.</p>
<p>Mudd has some of the worst grade deflation in the country. I think the average freshman GPA last year was about a 2.7, and the average freshman here is pretty smart.</p>
<p>A's are not "well nigh impossible" at Swarthmore. Obviously, it depends on the course, the professor, and the individual student. But, as a general rule, if you show up to classes, do the reading assignments, participate in class discussions, and make a decent, good-faith effort on the papers, you'll get at least a "B" or "B+", at least in the social science and humanities classes. If you do all that, you'll also get really smart really fast and probably get some A-'s and A's along the way.</p>
<p>Mileage may vary in math, science, and engineering where grading on a curve is more common and where, frankly, some students are probably perservering in fields for which they have little natural aptitude.</p>
<p>I said the freshman GPA is 2.7 average. GPA goes up the longer people are here. There are several reasons for this:</p>
<ol>
<li>People start realizing that Pitzer is really easy... and that offcampus Hum courses should be taken there.</li>
<li>People don't have to take core courses anymore. That means you don't have CS nerds trying to do well in biology and vice versa. </li>
<li>People balance partying and academics better. </li>
</ol>
<p>All three hold true for me this year, so I think I might be able to break a 3.0!</p>
<p>By the way, part of the rise in Mudd's GPA can be attributed to the fact that engineering has steadily declined (as far as % of students). We have had new programs such as Math Bio and Math/CS and all the other programs have gained power and stolen the would be engineers. It's just a guess, but I'd think that the average engineering GPA hasn't inflated much at all over the years.</p>
<p>interesteddad, I included Swarthmore from a chapter solely on Swarthmore in a college guide book called Cool Colleges, by D Asher. In this chapter he says that Swarthmore is one of the few schools that engage in grade deflation.</p>
<p>I just went back to the book and here are the others...</p>
<p>Harvey Mudd, Reed, and Sewanee.</p>
<p>The exact line is</p>
<p>"Swarthmore is one of four colleges with vitually no grade inflation. Students who never made a B learn how at Swarthmore."</p>
<p>He goes on and explains the origin of grade inflation.</p>
<p>I take grade inflation to be the norm, I am calling no grade inflation to be grade deflation. I have seen it referref to 'deflation in CC before, too (in a Carleton thread).</p>
<p>Since I saw the concept of grade deflation, indicated in CC, at Carleton, and later in a thread in St Anselm (!), I thought I would ask others their opinions what colleges it was extra hard to get an A.</p>
<p>I have to admit the info on Carleton affected my daughter's opinion on Carleton, in addition to some other things.</p>
<p>here is a thread (but I thought I found others, too)</p>
<p>This information is several years old but can still be used as a general guide so long as you understand it is not divinely inspired gospel.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Boalt Hall (UC Berkeley's Law School) has a pretty good scale by which they can assess the difficulty of getting an A at certain schools. Schools with higher numbers mean it is more difficult to get an A. </p>
<p>Swarthmore 89.5
Williams 89.0
Duke 88.5
Carleton 88.0
Colgate 88.0
J. Hopkins 87.5
Chicago 87.0
Dartmouth 87.0
Wesleyan 87.0
Cornell 86.5
Harvard 86.5
Middlebury 86.0
Princeton 86.0
Bates 85.5
MIT 85.5
Haverford 85.0
Pomona 85.0
Virginia 85.0
Amherst 84.5
Reed 84.5
Vanderbilt 84.5
Wm & Mary 84.5
Bowdoin 83.5
Tufts 83.5
Vassar 83.5
Bryn Mawr 83.0
Hamilton 83.0
Oberlin 83.0
Rice 83.0
U. Pennsylvania 83.0
Clrmt. McK. 82.5
Yale 82.5
Brandeis 82.0
Northwestern 82.0
Colby 81.5
Michigan 81.5
Notre Dame 81.5
Wash. U. 81.0
Barnard 80.5
Columbia 80.5
Stanford 80.5
Brown 80.0
Georgetown 80.0
Smith 80.0
Wellesley 80.0
Emory 79.5
U. North Carolina 79.5
Whitman C. 79.5
Rochester 79.0
UC Berkeley 78.5
UC San Diego 78.5
Illinois 78.0
SUNY Bing 78.0
Texas 78.0
Trinity U. 77.5
Boston College 77.0
UC S. Barbara 77.0
Wisconsin 77.0
Florida 76.5
U. Washington 76.5
Santa Clara 76.0
Geo. Wash. 75.5
UC Davis 75.5
UCLA 75.5
Colorado 75.0
Michigan State 75.0
Boston University 74.5
Cal Poly SLO 74.5
Massachusetts 74.0
Penn State 74.0
Iowa 73.5
Purdue 73.5
SMU 73.5
SUNY Albany 73.5
BYU 73.0
Minnesota 73.0
Ohio State 73.0
Oregon 73.0
UC Irvine 73.0
Indiana 72.5
NYU 72.0
SUNY Buff 72.0
SUNY Stony 72.0
Mills 71.5
American 71.0
Arizona 71.0
Loyola Mary. 71.0
Maryland 71.0
Fordham 70.5
Kansas 70.0
Syracuse 70.0
USC 70.0
Arizona St. 69.5
CS San Diego 69.5
Catholic U. 69.5
Oklahoma 69.5
Pacific 69.5
Hofstra 69.0
UC Riverside 68.5
Utah 68.5
CS Chico 68.5
Miami 68.0
New Mexico 68.0
San Diego 68.0
CS Northridge 67.0
Pepperdine 67.0
CS San Fran. 66.0
CS Sacramento 65.0
Hawaii 64.5
Denver 63.5
CS Fullerton 63.0
CS Hayward 63.0
CS Long Beach 63.0
CS San Jose 63.0
CS Fresno 62.5
St. Mary's 61.5
CCNY 59.0
CS LA 58.5
Howard 57.5
San Francisco 57.5</p>
<p>I'm surprised that only one person (tommybill) has mentioned MIT so far. I'm rather curious as to what methodology Boalt was using, as I'm a bit skeptical of those numbers - everyone I knew at MIT who cross-registered for Harvard classes thought it was much easier to get an A there!</p>
<p>Interesting, tommybill. It's a shame that Mudd isn't in that ranking. Although I'd have to imagine that we'd be pretty high up considering Pomona is already at 85.0, Mudd's average GPA was 1.5 points lower in 2001, and many Pomona students are afraid to take classes at Mudd because of them hurting their GPAs.</p>
<p>I was also surprised by Harvard's placement because I thought it was a national joke how high grades tend to run there. I'm not saying those students may not deserve those grades, but I thought that the general feeling was that there wasn't much differentiation there, that many students earn excellent grades and honors at Harvard. </p>
<p>Maybe those Boalt numbers are really about "effort" and not about relative likelihood.</p>
<p>To the best of my knowledge, the formula was undisclosed, but it was clear that Boalt was taking LSAT scores and GPA data and making some decisions about relative difficulty. For instance, I assume that a school with average LSAT scores at the 95th percentile, but average GPA at the 50th percentile, would get a GPA boost. Schools with LSATs at the 35th percentile, but GPAs at the 85th percentile, might get a GPA deflator.</p>
<p>Note that small differences in the numbers must have been considered insignificant, since a similar GPA "boost" was given to all schools above a particular score and a GPA "deflator" to all below a given score.</p>
<p>Harvard's grades, if they are a "national joke," would be a joke only to those who understand little. IF all colleges had student bodies of exactly equal academic skills and abilities, then one could point to higher-than-average grades and laugh, absent any data suggesting that the schools with higher GPAs do a better job of instruction.</p>
<p>If Harvard had average grades, that should raise an eyebrow. It would be a bit hard to believe that kids who had done so insanely well in high school should suddenly become B students in college?</p>
<p>I assume that Harvard also has very high MCAT, GMAT, and LSAT scores. I don't see anyone laughing about those, do you?</p>