My D is in the process of putting a college list together. She is a very good student but she prefers a campus that isn’t dictated by Greek life. She is concerned that the process of making friends will be impacted by it. And she is not interested in joining. Besides Jesuit colleges and small liberal arts colleges (ie Swathmore, Smith, etc), what are some other ideas? We are in the Northeast and may travel as far as Notre Dame (it’s a reach). She feels BC would be a perfect fit but so do lots of other accomplished students. Any ideas are appreciated.
My youngest D felt similarly although she ultimately ended up at a school with Greek life and did join a sorority (full disclosure….she is not very active and it wasn’t how she made friends). A couple schools to consider: University of Rochester and Brandeis.
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Mine went to William and Mary. It does have Greek life, but it’s very low key compared to many schools. Only about 25% of the students participate, and there are many, many other ways to get involved on campus. My daughter never joined and had a great experience.
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Fordham, Loyola MD, Rice, Carleton, Grinnell, Hampshire, Kalamazoo, Bryn Rawr, Oberlin are some others.
Check K for a safety and Loyoa Md too - as far as an easier admit.
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We are going to visit there. So 25% isn’t high? She seems to think when the percentages are that high, she is ready to take it off the list.
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Perhaps colleges not appearing in these sites would be more likely to be socially acceptable:
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/most-sororities
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I’d encourage your D to keep an open mind.
There are colleges where frat life dominates- regardless of the actual number of Greek members-- and colleges where it’s one social/living option among many.
I think what your D needs to define is what she DOES want, not what she wants to avoid.
Brandeis for example- already mentioned- terrific place for someone interested in volunteering, community involvement, lots of options for socializing that don’t revolve around parties and drinking. Not a huge sports school though- not a big rah rah rah environment- so if that’s what she wants, it might not work (just reacting to your BC comment-- BC is a much more rah rah rah place).
Fordham- lots of kids involved in the performing arts (and of course NYC is filled with things to see, do, watch, participate in.) It’s urban though- both campuses-- and a kid needs to be comfortable with public transportation to do fun stuff and go to cool places.
Rochester- fantastic place, but the weather/climate isn’t for everyone.
How does she want to spend her social time???
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I think it depends on how the Greek life operates. At WM, it’s not a major factor in social life for most. Anyone can go to the parties, but students who aren’t Greek still have strong friend groups and lots of things to do. Not really any different from when I was there in the 80s. I had lots of friends who were Greek and many who weren’t. Agree with blossom that your daughter needs to think about what she really wants in her future college. If she finds those things, Greek life won’t matter if she doesn’t want it to.
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I agree with others about finding out what she does want in a school and also to realize that not all Greek life is created equal. I also went to W&M in the 80s and was in a sorority, but it was really low key and continues to be. As far as W&M numbers go, there are about 800 women in each class. If W&M is 25% Greek, there will be about 200 Greek freshmen girls but 600 who are not Greek. She would certainly be able to find friends with other “non Greek” girls.
Google W&M sorority house and Bama sorority house. They are completely different vibes and have a totally different impact on their campuses. I have a friend whose daughter is heading to a big southern school and has to show up weeks in advance of the start of school for rush. My son is headed to school where rush is second semester and the sororities don’t even have houses. They have designated floors in dorms. All of which is to say, find a bunch of schools your daughter does like. Then, when checking out the details of all of them, consider the Greek culture at those particular schools. Don’t allow a Greek percentage on a chart to keep her from possibly finding her perfect academic and lifestyle match.
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Maybe a school like Rice that has a residential college system and no Greek life?
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I really think high school kids have an impression of Greek life based on movies or watching sports on TV. Usually Greeks have a higher GPA than other groups on campus (even just grouping people by grade and sex), are involved in more student groups and activities and keep things going on campus. They participate in homecoming parades, host social activities, even things like political debates (sometimes special activities just need a mass number of students so turn to those groups that are already organized, the Greeks, and ask for warm bodies).
I wasn’t really interested in Greek life but did go through rush because I was a transfer student and not living in the dorms, so I wanted to meet people. Now 40+ years later, I had lunch with 5 sisters last Saturday, I’m going on a vacation with 2 next month. Truly lifetime friends.
We’re friends. We worked on volunteer projects together (and yes, built some homecoming floats), attended some football games and even attended parties together, but mostly we just went to college together, studied together, helped each other through math problems and essays that weren’t just quite right. Just like the Greeks at Hopkins, Harvard, Yale, Michigan, Duke etc. do.
Honestly, I met a lot of people I wouldn’t have if I’d just lived in my apartment and joined the club for my department or worked at the bookstore. Several of us have become friends later in life as we now share interests in quilting, bird watching, traveling. One woman is pretty high up at NASA but she and I talk about quilting. And rocket launches.
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Okay, since I’m seeing Swarthmore and Notre Dame, it sounds like your daughter is looking for small to mid-sized schools. Is that correct? Since you mentioned Smith, it seems she’s open to single-sex schools. She does not want a school where social life is dominated by Greek life. And you want a college that is east of Chicago and…how far south? Weather preferences? Major? Budget? Sports enthusiasm? Particular interests that she wants to pursue? Any additional information you could provide would be helpful to provide suggestions.
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This.
They are really really different at different schools. Even the same sorority at different colleges can be very different: I know two students in the same sorority- Kappa Kappa Gamma- but one is at UT-Austin and the other at Johns Hopkins…completely different vibes & experiences!
If your daughter in is in a relatively small school she may not realize how small 25% of a larger population can be in absolute terms, but also in cultural terms. About 25% of students at JHU participate in Greek life, but I don’t think anybody would say that it dictates campus life!
Obviously, we don’t know anything about your daughter, but drawing on the random sample of our college process experiences with the Collegekids, this feels a little bit like her trying to get some bearings in a strange new world. Being able to say ‘well, at least I know that I don’t want that, so there is one marker to hold on to’ is a perfectly reasonable way to start defining parameters - and is a lot easier to focus on than all the really big existential aspects of college admissions (eg, how do I know what the ‘right’ or ‘best’ college is for me? what if I don’t get in? what if I do get in but I chose the wrong one? etc etc etc).
So, agree with her that it’s a fair metric (b/c it is), but one that might might work best at this stage by eliminating the extremes (skip Dartmouth, for example!), and then revisit that element when it comes time to shortlist. And then encourage her to think of other metrics. For example- urban/rural. BC & Notre Dame are kind of opposite ends of that divide- is she equally happy with both? or does her slider go more towards one end than another?
ps, Greek life can be good topic for questions on college visits btw: ‘how strong a role does Greek life play in campus social life?’ ‘what proportion of people active in greek life are 1st and 2nd years, vs 3rd & 4th years?’ ‘what kinds of social activities do the greek life people tend to organize?’
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Elizabethtown
Other than substituting Reed College for Swarthmore, I don’t know if I can think of 2 presitigious colleges / universities that are any more different than Swarthmore and Notre Dame.
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What is it that she doesn’t like about Greek life? The reason I asked is that you mention SLACs as a preferable alternative. Some may be a fit, while others will have such a huge percent of student athletes that she would realize that the very characteristics she is trying to avoid are embedded in that school’s culture…even without any sort of Greek life.
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I only meant to relay that we’re aware of certain schools that don’t have greek life at all, not that she is interested in small liberal art schools, such as Swarthmore. Sorry for the confusion.
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Thank you. I’ll caution her not to make quick judgements
Thank you for your input. It is very helpful as we will soon be visiting a number of colleges.
I only mentioned Swarthmore and Smith as schools that are of a type that do not have Greek life. I was trying to avoid having those types of schools recommended since I was already aware of them. Sorry for the confusion. I should have written my statement better. She is looking for midsized, not single-sexed, not sure about major but leans toward STEM. She’d probably prefer cold over hot. She has been an athlete for a long time so would probably enjoy the school spirit aspect of school games. She’s volunteered a lot as well. She’s not a partier but likes being involved and might partake in partying to socialize. She’s somewhat mature/serious for her age. Anyway, I don’t expect anyone to respond really. Just thought I’d throw the question out there to see what came back. Thanks
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