Wesleyan also has a 3/2 and 4/2 engineering program with Dartmouth and Caltech. Son is not looking at engineering programs so I don’t know anything about the programs but it was mentioned on the tour.
My son was admitted to the class of 2020 and is interested in 3/2. How many kids a year actually do 3/2? He is excited to go.
@hsibparent While I don’t have all the data on 3/2 programs, I would suggest that many kids express interest, but few follow through. I had a discussion with the administrator of the Holy Cross/ Columbia 3/2 program and he told me typically 25 freshman express interest and 2 or 3 follow through to completion.
3/2 programs are put in place by colleges for the sole purpose of attracting engineering students to a school with no engineering. In my opinion it’s a marketing ploy more than anything else. Further, you are NOT likely to get any financial aid from the engineering school for the fifth year.
I’m sure there are success stories out there…lots of them. But I wouldn’t encourage my kid to try it as the cons seem to far outweigh the pros.
JMHO
My son will not be pursuing an engineering program so I know very little as to why these schools are uniting in this effort other than what I have heard. The belief is STEM students excel in math/science and have outstanding ideas but have difficulty with presentations or communicating these ideas. As a result, many STEM focused programs require a recommendation from a non-STEM teacher and are requiring more liberal arts courses be taken to balance this out. Again, having no specific knowledge of this, I would agree with @STEM2017 that students are not likely to get financial aid beyond 4 years so one could ensure their child could enhance their communication/ business skills in much less expensive ways.
I would not consider a 3/2. Most kids do not want to leave their schools after 3 years and it does assume the grades required are met for the 2 portion of the program. We’ve been told on tours by schools that offer it that very very few kids follow through. I agree on the aid/award risk as well.
When we did a stroll around UCSB, my D put it high on her list (it’s her UC “match,” and the surroundings are stunning). But then she had an official tour, seeing the inside of dorms and classes, and it went down her list because he dorms apparently smell moldy and look old, and there’s current construction to rehab buildings but it doesn’t look close to being done in the next couple of years. …This is according to her, I wasn’t on that tour.
Up: Michigan Tech, UAH, Lake Superior, Rose Hulman.
Down: Miami.
Dropped all the way off: Purdue, IU, Case, although CWRU lingered a while.
Small classes, high nerd ratio, few to no TAs teaching classes moved those schools up.
Purdue promised her “no scholarships” but compensated with freshman classes of up to 600 per section and limited access to professors.
Case told us 4 times about beating OSU in football. It had been at the very top of the list, but the visit mortally wounded its chances. Sketchy campus housing locations and an apparently disinterested student body didn’t help. I’m sure it’s fine, but not DD’s cup of tea. The info session was slick but unsubstantive - “we don’t superscore, but yeah, we kind of do.” polar opposites of some other schools.
Miami … Both of her parents went there, and while I’m delighted with the overall quality of education, and my social group didn’t party (we were a very small minority of math and science nerds), I totally understand some of the comments made here. She didn’t feel it a good fit, and we were ok with that.
Rose was a surprise. I work with several Rose grads and generally they’re ok engineers, but I’ve always thought a little light in humanities. That seems to be changing, and recent grads seem more well rounded than guys who graduated before 2000 or so. In the end, the cost was pretty competitive with what Purdue (in state) had forecast.
We did an informal visit of IU, and it has some excellent programs. DD researched crime on campus, however, and never spoke of IU again. So the visit didn’t drop it off her list, but her research afterwards did.
curious- 50N40W how you chose your CC name- that location is in the ocean, east of all of the US and Canada (45N90W is in the middle of Wisconsin).
Just to add a different perspective: My kid is planning to major in math or physics. He knew that he wanted to go to an LAC rather than an engineering school but he likes engineering and had considered studying it in grad school. He viewed the 3/2 programs as an alternative approach. He also viewed it as a sort of transfer option in case he didn’t really connect with the school he attended and wanted to cut out early. (Pretty sure that’s not going to be an issue now.)
I agree with @Otterma. My D is also a Math major and undecided double (Chem, CS, Economics) but was very interested when she saw the different 3+2 and 2+1+1+1 dual engineering programs offered at her school. I’m pretty sure she has decided against the engineering, but we both liked that it is an option. I would hate for my child to go to an engineering school and then hate the profession. How many junior high school kids actually know what they want to be? Options are good.
Agree with you both @NEPatsGirl and @Otterma The 3+2/ 2+1+1+1 programs are PERFECT for your kids. They offer a great option if they decide in the future that they want to pursue engineering. However, if a students knows they want engineering from the start, these are not ideal programs. I agree with you both that attending a technical school that offers only engineering and technical subjects is risky, if they ever want to change. That’s why choosing a school with both engineering and liberal arts is usually a better option, if you know you want engineering. For this reason, we crossed off several technical schools from his list.
Same here @STEM2017 , both my kids were in engineering but went to large public schools. If they had not done well in engineering, or just didn’t like it , they had many other options. We knew it is much easier to start in engineering and opt out later than start in something else and transfer into engineering. We also wanted our kids to graduate in four years. Neither had any interest in smaller schools that were primarily focused on technical subjects, although some kids seem to thrive in those kinds of schools. Weren’t interested in LAC’s either. My sons wanted a larger school college experience, with all the big time sports that go along with that. Each kid will be different though in what their preferences are and what will work for them.
When my daughter picked an engineering school, I knew that if engineering didn’t work out, she’d still have plenty of other subjects she could pick from for a major, like chemistry or physics or math. She would never want to major in something like English or history even if she’d picked a big university. On the flip side, when she looked at LACs with the 3+2 option, if she didn’t like the physics department, there weren’t going to be a lot of other choices.
My “LAC” kid ended up at a bigger school than she originally wanted, and she’s very glad she did. She’s changed her major once, and she loves having lots of choices. Most of the departments at her school are pretty small but there are a lot of them, so lots of choices.
There are some 4/1 engineering programs as well out there, which gets around the issue of having to leave classmates after college year #3. For example, Haverford has a 4+1 engineering program with Penn. And added bonus is staying in the same area to maintain friendships, contacts, etc.
https://www.haverford.edu/engineering/41-program-university-pennsylvania
@twoinanddone, my D has now changed her major 3 times in her freshman year (well, nothing has been declared so its all on paper so to speak but…). She hasn’t ventured far from STEM but in the end I think she might have been better off in a larger school where there were many options and the classes to excel in them. Her choice though and she refused to look at the bigger schools. Do schools like WPI and RPI have good options if an engineering major changes their course?
@wis75
Kipling, “How the Whale Got His Throat”
WHEN the cabin port-holes are dark and green
Because of the seas outside;
When the ship goes wop (with a wiggle between)
And the steward falls into the soup-tureen,
And the trunks begin to slide;
When Nursey lies on the floor in a heap,
And Mummy tells you to let her sleep,
And you aren’t waked or washed or dressed,
Why, then you will know (if you haven’t guessed)
You’re ‘Fifty North and Forty West!’
Back on topic, Hanover showed very well, and went up after the visit. Pretty sure if she’d wanted to stay within a hundred miles of home, she’d have picked it.
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Not if they want to change course to something not STEM (though I notice a few humanities majors and concentrations are offered). D didn’t look at any of them for that reason.
^^My daughter’s school, something like 65-75% of the students are in engineering, STEM courses, or psychology. The psych majors are very science oriented too, as the college has a big autism study center so their focus is on the bio and chem part of psychology. The rest are mostly business and communications majors. I think there are a few kids who piece together a ‘humanities’ major but their choices are really limited.
I don’t know about WPI or RPI.
.
@doschicos The Haverford/Penn 4+1 combo program is the only one we would consider because, like you said, you get to stay at your school for senior year, but also you graduate with a Bachelors AND a Masters degree. Not just 2 Bachelors degrees.
If considering a 3+2 type of program, ask how many kids follow through on it at the school you are considering. We considered it briefly before considering those things others mentioned above.