<p>I would really appreciate some insights into how good/bad Bard really is. Right now, I’m deciding whether or not to go visit.</p>
<p>So I have been admitted undecided to Columbia SEAS and to Bard with a full tuition science scholarship. Going to Columbia would mean having to take up about $100k i loans. These are not “predatory” in any way, but flexible government loans that are frozen during studies (incl later master/PhD), and charges about 3-5 % interest afterwards…</p>
<p>My parent have enough resources to get me through Columbia without any loans, but have decided that I should take most of the bill myself (much because of how “kind” the loans are). So there is really no chance I’ll end up a financial cripple if I choose Columbia, I’ll just be left with less money.</p>
<p>So the ultimate choice is to either go to Bard and graduate with about $20k in my savings account, or go to Columbia and take on $100k in loans and be left with no savings…</p>
<p>What do you guys suggest?
I know this is the Bard forum, so I’m expecting biased answers:)</p>
<p>In general, graduating with no debt would be my recommendation. I was going to suggest visiting, but if you’re in Norway, I suppose that would be problematic. Both are good schools, so congratulations on having a no-lose choice!</p>
<p>You do know that Bard used to be part of Columbia way back when?</p>
<p>^ thanks for the advice! I might go visit if I’m almost sure I’ll choose bard. I also have an offer from Wesleyan with a little FA, so I’m really having a hard time deciding. Do you have any experience with or thoughts about sciences at bard. I know they’re trying to emphasize them with new buildings and scholarships (!), but that could just be them acknowledging their weakness in the area…?</p>
<p>I recommend, since you can’t visit, that you email the chairman of the department at Bard in the area of science you’re interested in and ask him about the breadth of the program and the opportunities for research, study at Roosevelt, summer internships etc. Find out if there will be enough courses in your area of interest at the level you seek.</p>
<p>Know that Bard is rural and isolated - Columbia is the opposite. Will that matter to you? Do you want a big school, or a small one? Bigger classes, smaller classes? (I don’t actually know anything about the size of classes at Columbia’s SEAS.)</p>
<p>Will you be going to graduate school in the US or in Europe? You might find it easier to get into a European university with a degree from a more well known institution - whether or not it’s warranted. Another question to ask the Bard department chair about - graduate school placement.</p>
<p>One thing you will have at Bard is full exposure to the other disciplines and your friends will probably be interested in all sorts of things. I don’t know how segregated SEAS students are from those in Columbia College. I would guess they are going to be more narrowly focused than students who choose to attend a more general liberal arts program. My other guess is that the Bard students could be more interested in pursuing the sciences for the pure love of science, rather than as a pre-professional training program towards ultimate employment. But, again, I’ve never known any students at SEAS so I could be completely off-base. Bard students, though, do tend to be passionate about learning because they love it and it gives them pleasure - it’s what draws them to the college in the first place.</p>
<p>The most important factors for me are: [ul][<em>]quality of academics (Columbia better)[</em>]flexibility of academics (Bard better)[<em>]beautiful college campus (Bard better)[</em>]reputation (Columbia better)[<em>]graduate school placement (Columbia better)[</em>]and cost (Bard $120k better)[/ul]</p>
<p>I am having difficulties deciding which factors I should weigh more…</p>
<p>Also: I’ll most likely go to graduate school in the US. At the moment I think I’ll end up either getting an MBA, or an M.S./PhD in applied physics or engineering.</p>
<p>I’m definitely drawn to LACs for most of their unique qualities. But my interests in physics and engineering, and hopes for graduate school, make me less sure they’re a fit for me…</p>
<p>Btw, I also have a third option: Wesleyan and ending up with $30-40k in loans. That would be the middle of the road between Columbia and Bard considering academics/prestige/grad school/cost/flexibility right?</p>
<p>Please let me know what you think!
Thank you!</p>
<p>Bard offers joint engineering degrees with other institutions, including Columbia. Maybe you can have the best of both worlds? I don’t know how the scholarship would work for the final two years. But you could certainly find out! [Academics</a> | Engineering](<a href=“http://www.bard.edu/academics/additional/additional_pop.php?id=183017]Academics”>http://www.bard.edu/academics/additional/additional_pop.php?id=183017)
In affiliation with the Schools of Engineering at Columbia University, Washington University in St. Louis, and Dartmouth College, Bard offers programs of study leading to degrees in engineering. Under the 3-2 program, a student transfers to the school of engineering at the end of the junior year at Bard and, upon completing that two-year program, qualifies for both a B.A. degree from Bard and a B.S. degree in engineering from the other school.</p>
<p>As for Wesleyan - it’s a terrific school.</p>
<p>As for the quality of the academics - Columbia SEAS vs. Bard or Wesleyan - that is debatable. Not being in the sciences I can’t answer that - but you won’t have any TA’s teaching at either Bard or Wesleyan, and no grad students competing for resources.</p>
<p>@Johannes@ How were you noticed about bard’s scholarship award? I was accepted too and applied for FA and I did not hear anything about my scholarship yet.</p>
<p>@SpiritManager@ So if I did get you right, I could transfer to an engineering school from bard after two years of studies?
In my case… I am planning to Major in Studio Arts and either Computer Sciences or Math or even both of them if possible. After majoring in those programs will I be able to transfer to an Architecture school such as Cornell for my graduate school?</p>
<p>B.T.W what do you guys mean by “graduate school placement”. I am not sure I am catching your point there.</p>
<p>^^ Thanks for the suggestions! I’ve been looking at the 3-2 programs, and they appear to be very fitting. However, I’m a bit put off by having to leave my friends to go off and make new ones at another college, and also by the fact that I hear these programs are more marketing plots than paths actually taken… I’ll definitely consider it though, if I end up at Bard or Wesleyan!</p>
<p>Another question for the masses:
Is Wesleyan worth $40-50k more than Bard for physics and economics?</p>
<p>I’ve read that Wes is a lot stronger than the other LACs in research because of their graduate programs, but is it really worth that much money??</p>
<p>@Gbriel - you can get a post-graduate degree in architecture with any undergraduate degree - it just requires 1 more year of school, I believe, than if you have an undergrad architecture degree - and many architects think it wise to study something other than architecture for undergrad. As for Cornell - the specific 3/2 program at Bard is only for Columbia, Dartmouth & Washington University at St. Louis - which is famous for their architecture program.</p>
<p>@johannes1430 - I have heard fewer students end up doing the 3/2 programs than originally intend to - but that doesn’t mean none of them do. Yes, you would be leaving Bard one year early - but, since it’s small - you might be ready to venture out at that point anyway.</p>
<p>Economics at Bard is fantastic. They have the Levy Institute which is one of the leading institutes in the world. Physics is a small department. Again, I recommend you correspond directly with the department itself about the limitations and opportunities.</p>
<p>@SpiritManager - So you are saying that transferring to Cornell would not be an option? Although I have checked about the other schools you have mentioned and their programs are quiet impressing.
B.T.W a 3/2 program is what is also referred as a Dual Degree program?</p>
<p>Thank you so very much for your assist. I truly appreciate.</p>
<p>@Gbriel - Please re-read the link I posted in Post #6 above - it has all the information about the different engineering degree options. One of options does give you two degrees, another doesn’t. And, no, Cornell is not one of the colleges in the program and would not be an option. But also note these are engineering options, not architecture. I recommend that you email the professor listed in that link and ask him specific questions about how a prospective architecture student could participate in the program.</p>
<p>As for science quality at Bard, while I am not in the sciences, my roommate of 2 years is (math and physics), so I’ve learned a lot about it from her. She was also planning on doing the 3/2 program at Columbia, but she decided against it because it was too hard for her to get her double major requirements in enough time for her to do it (not that it’s impossible, but double majoring at Bard is no small task, especially when you have to do it at an accelerated pace).</p>
<p>The sciences here are pretty great. Understated because of the focus on the humanities, but because of the small department size, it’s an incredibly personal experience. Classes are small, and even when they’re big, they’re still pretty small compared to other schools (I <em>believe</em> the largest class POSSIBLE here is 60 students, and that’s just the largest amount of students that can be in the largest lecture hall. And a class this size is EXTREMELY rare). Most class sizes are 15-25, obviously getting smaller the more advanced you get in your academic field. Professors often outright ask their students if they would like to work on their research with them, making it relatively easy for science students to add to their resume and get great experience. The professors are personable. My roommate goes to some of her professors for problems she’s having in the sciences/math or personal, a quality in most professors, but oddly enough the science department seems to be one of the warmer ones.</p>
<p>Maybe you should be asking this question to graduated students who are paying off loans in the amount you would have? Bet they could enlighten you.</p>
<p>I honestly have no idea. I think as long as you keep your grades up and can manage the workload/fast-paced route you’d take doing a 3-2, you’ll be fine and get accepted.</p>
<p>OP, where did you end up choosing? Imo, Wesleyan’s definitely your best choice. I would choose it over both Bard and Columbia without hesitation, even with the 40K in loans. It’s worth it.</p>