“Carnegie Mellon has the best computer science school in the country and very possibly, in the world.”
It is definitely up there with MIT and Stanford. CMU is really, really good for CS. Columbia is not at the same level.
“One of the things they told me when I visited was that they don’t teach specific languages, they teach CS so that even as the field constantly changes over time, the information learned remains applicable.”
Exactly. The language is not the big deal. Data structures, the structure of the program, computational complexity, …, these are important.
“Both schools have private musical lessons”
I think that this is very common for schools that have good music programs. I would not worry about getting music lessons at either CMU or Columbia.
I know some music majors, and someone who had intended to be a music major but changed their mind. A major in music is sort of like being pregnant only more so, you can’t do a little bit of it. Music is their life. One even has a poster on their wall that states “Music = Life”. On the other hand, a minor can be more reasonable. You can be excellent at computer science and dabble in music (one of the very best software engineers that I have ever worked with does dabble relatively successfully in music – I have seen a few others at open mic’s).
I think that you might be underestimating Pittsburg.
Personally I would stick with CMU. The strength of their CS program is the clincher IMHO. I would not want to give that up.
I would stick with CMU. The music opportunities are similar or better and the CS program is in another category entirely.
In addition, CMU + girl in CS = you can get any CS internship in NYC if that’s what you want, so that you benefit from both college life in Pittsburgh and a summer paid gig in NYC (with free time and money, v. Homework and occasional expensive outings).
You seem quite indecisive. You’ve posted this question here and under CM. And you just recently picked CM over UMD. In addition to your posts about should you take a full ride at UMD and one about your concern that you were only accepted to CM because you were black.
I don’t remember your financial situation (other than your post on how you disagreed with how your parents spend their money).
No more FOMO. No more doubts about yourself. Make a decision - you can do it.
If you look through your own comments on this thread, you’ve made a very strong case for attending CMU. Imagine this scenario as if it were a choice a friend was making between two potential suitors. What advice would you offer your friend? It seems like suitor #1 is a better match, but suitor #2 has a new appeal because they were harder to get.
I committed to CMU’s school of computer science, but was let off the WL for Columbia University in NY (the College, not SEAS) recently. At both of these schools, I plan on studying computer science and something related to music. I’m pretty dead set on these subjects and I’m pretty much completely certain I won’t be changing majors or anything. In the future, I hope to have a career both working as a software developer (e.g. making websites/applications/software or pen testing) and working in music professionally (e.g. professional choirs and city music or composition gigs) or possibly somehow combining the two fields with a job that encompasses both (not sure yet).
I would really appreciate if people who are in similar situations to me, have children who were in similar situations to me, or know a lot about each school would help me out because that’s usually the advice I find most helpful. Without further ado, here are my qualms about each school.
I am not interested in Carnegie Mellon's BCSA / Music and technology degree programs. I don't like how the major requirements are cut in half. I feel like it won't allow me to get enough of an education in both. Carnegie Mellon would require me to internally transfer into their music program for me to double major or double degree. There's always the chance I could be rejected and have to apply again and again. Apparently, speaking to students who go there, the faculty is pretty understanding and will help me with portfolios/auditions through private lessons. At Columbia, their music program accepts everyone because it's a BA. It has similar classes in theory, ear training, etc and it also has a jazz concentration. I know that they also have professional-level voice repertoire classes taught at Barnard which I most likely would not be good enough to take at CMU.
Both schools have private musical lessons (Is CMU's faculty better?). Carnegie Mellon has a fully produced opera which would have been cool to do. I don't think Columbia has that though.
At CMU, a double major would likely take 4-5 years depending on if I decide to take summer classes (I feel like those would be boring in Pittsburgh). At Columbia, I would most likely try and transfer into the 3-2 program which is a B.S. and a B.A. but I would be forced to do all the major requirements for both SEAS and CC which seems like a lot of work. Alternatively, I could just double major in CC. I would again possibly take summer classes for Columbia.
Financially, I haven't received my FA package from Columbia yet, but as long as it's around the same as Carnegie Mellon, it doesn't really matter. The main thing I'm concerned about is the student life. I'm assuming people at Columbia enjoy going to expensive restaurants and clubbing in the city for social activities rather than chilling in dorms and going to different house get-togethers at Pittsburgh. Financially, I don't think I can afford to go out every weekend and do crazy expensive things. I feel as though maybe I'd miss out at Columbia but I'm not sure about this.
Carnegie Mellon has the best computer science school in the country and very possibly, in the world. One of the things they told me when I visited was that they don't teach specific languages, they teach CS so that even as the field constantly changes over time, the information learned remains applicable. I don't know if Columbia does this. I also like CMU's teaching style: they use note packets rather than textbooks a lot of the time. I feel like Columbia's teaching of CS would be more old-school since it's an ivy. I'm not sure if this is correct, however. I think I like CMU'S SCS better.
Someone from Columbia said they had no trouble getting interviews.. but that they failed their interviews.. I don't know if they're credible though, but that worries me.
The core curriculum at Columbia for the college takes up 14-16 classes. Apparently, a student from Columbia laughed at someone from Brown's (open curriculum) writing sample because it was terrible writing and they never had done any core English classes. I fear not being a good writer and having a condensed outlook on the world. A Columbia alum told me that the majority of people who haven't read the works they were forced to read in CORE are truly missing out intellectually. The problem is that I'm truly terrible with the humanities. Particularly, my analytical writing has always been bad and I'm a very slow reader and have a lot of trouble understanding the language and literary devices used in old anglo-saxon works. In school, when reading Shakesphere, I would always have to use resources such as "No Fear" to help me understand my readings. This wouldn't pass at Columbia.. Also, the thought of taking 14-16 humanities classes is something I'm not 100% sure I'd enjoy because truly, I've never done something like that. A lot of double majors at Columbia have expressed on college confidential that they'd rather be more involved in their major classes and I fear I won't have the opportunity to take all the classes I want.
I feel like the core curriculum is the same for Carnegie Mellon, however. I know that there are gened requirements that I’d have to take in the humanities and literature (Barely any AP credit). Does anyone know if it’s the same amount as Columbia? Because, if so, then the core curriculum really won’t be that big of an issue since it’s the same for both schools!
I have limited time to respond to their waitlist offer. Please let me know your thoughts! I’m not really sure how to determine my “fit”. I love NYC and would love to live there, but at the same time, I want the flexibility to travel across the country and even across the world. I’m really really stressed trying to decide this because I’m scared I’ll make the wrong choice! Thank you very much for all your wonderful help! I really cannot thank you enough. I apologize in advance for any grammar mistakes.
You seems to to be committed to a CS career and you’re not sure about the Columbia Core (a lot of other people aren’t either). If that’s the case, I too think you should stick with CMU SCS.
I don’t think “trade school-y” is the way to describe CMU. It does, however, have a very “corporate” feel, with a lot of the excitement linked to both the ties and opportunities with large, top-tier corporate employers, and also the many entrepreneurial and startup ventures to which CMU students, grads, and faculty are linked. This is not a bad thing if you’re set on a CS career and want a vast array of opportunities where coming out of CMU’s CS program will give you a foot in the door that even an Ivy like Columbia can’t quite match. However, if you’re more of an intellectual-exploration, life-of-the-mind, four-year-in-an-academic-bubble kind of person, you may savor the experience at Columbia in a different way from what you’d experience at CMU. Things are much more in silos at CMU (the whole BXA “interdisciplinary” initiative notwithstanding - my impression when we visited was that this was a top-down mandate that a lot of the departments don’t fully buy into)… which is fine if you like your silo - and the CS silo does indeed offer a state-of-the-art CS education that surpasses what you’d get at Columbia.
It really depends what you want, and most of all how sure you are about CS. IMHO, the worst possible outcome here (still not tragic, but undesirable relative to the great options you have) would be to go to CMU and then decide that CS wasn’t for you after all. Of course you can get a fine education in almost any major at CMU, but for the most part Columbia would be a better choice for you if it weren’t for CMU’s preeminence in CS. If you went to CMU for CS and then changed your mind about the field, you could legitimately feel regretful that you passed up Columbia. If you’re sure about CS and want to propel your CS career forward to the greatest possible extent, then go to CMU - you will find the music opportunities there, and find your tribe, and craft the college experience that you want. If your heart is in a wide-ranging liberal arts education and you’re just doing CS because you want an employment-worthy skill-set in the mix (but you might drop it if something you’re more passionate about comes along), then Columbia may be the place for you. (I have gotten both impressions, variously, at different points in your threads, so it’s hard to tell where your head and heart really are.)
Setting-wise, sure, Pittsburgh is not NYC, but there are pros and cons to both and I wouldn’t make this decision based on one city over the other. Both offer more than enough for as much of a rich, urban college experience as you want. The differences between the institutions themselves are more important.
@deadgirl I wrote a response and it got lost when this thread was merged. In case it does not reappear, to summarize: CMU’s core can be tailored to be more math/science/social science oriented than Columbia’s. Columbia also requires four semesters of foreign language and two of PE in addition to the humanities courses about which you are feeling some trepidation.
For what it’s worth, one of my engineering parents went to Columbia many decades ago and still vividly remembers and appreciates the core for its breadth, exposure to canonical works outside the discipline, and the inculcation of writing skills. However, your comments suggest that you want the freedom to dive deep rather and find a structure that requires breadth to be limiting, and perhaps even stifling.
Either will prepare you well for your chosen career path. While there is really no bad choice, it sounds CMU might fit your academic preferences and goals better.
Please remember that the COL between NYC and Pittsburgh varies considerably! Look at FA within the context of where you’ll be living. Does Columbia offer guaranteed housing for all four years? Off-campus rent could be quite a shock.
You really answered your own question. 1) You don’t look forward to the Core Curriculum. 2) You “despise” learning stuff you won’t use 3) You are “pretty disappointed” that you won’t be in Palo Alto. That is a pretty clear rejection of Columbia College’s entire undergraduate educational philosophy and it’s biggest asset, NYC.
OP - the people at Columbia who said they had no trouble getting interviews but then failed the interviews are on to something. If you are truly interested in CS, then CMU is the school for you. CMU has a great Fine Arts school with lots of opportunities for playing and the study of music, so I believe you can develop in that area as well. And you won’t have to worry about failing the CS interview at all or at least as much if you went to CMU.
If you are not that committed to CS, and you could see yourself doing something else (academia in a non-related field, professional school), or if you are truly interested in an excellent and broad education than maybe Columbia is for you.
Getting admitted to the CMU CS school is quite an achievement. At CMU you would be at the forefront of the technology which is leading some of the most exciting and widely applied discoveries in science, engineering and commerce in the world right now.
OP - I wouldn’t weight location that heavily. You’ll have many decades to travel the world. CMU or Columbia will get you started on your lifetime adventures. The question is which one will help you most.
Another comment OP, I don’t think the humanities at CMU are nearly as competitive as Columbia. This is not to denigrate CMU, it is a compliment to Columbia.