Hey everyone,
I recently have been doing some college research and I’ve stumbled over Columbia University’s Combined Degree Engineering Program. I find it to be to good to be true. All you have to do is just maintain a GPA of 3.3 and take all the major required classes. The affiliated school list also has a few schools that aren’t very academically renown. Is there anything I am missing?
A 3.3 GPA in college is harder than in high school. Also, you need to earn at least a B in every prerequisite on the first attempt.
Columbia also does not promise to “meet need” (as it defines “need”) for Combined Plan students like it does for frosh and regular transfers.
But still, doesn’t it seem a bit too easy. I am still puzzled over the fact that only 150 enrolled last year
Columbia engineering is not as well regarded as other programs. But is does have that ivy League prestige factor.
Exactly. That’s why I’m dubious. I’m very sure that there are a lot of students willing to transfer from some of the less prestigious LACs to the Ivy League school. Honestly, I still think grades are a given, though I understand that college is much harder, still I feel like someone can maintain a 3.3+ with some effort, especially if the reward is an Ivy League admission ticket
Does the 3.3 GPA guarantee transfer or make the student eligible for competitive transfer??
@TomSrOfBoston Guarantees transfer.
Before anything, I would like to state that the below is my personal thoughts on the program (take it with a grain of salt if you want to)
First, the Combined Degree does indeed exist. In fact, it exists in many top schools outside Columbia Univ including CalTech, WuStL, Cornell, etc. etc.
The notion of guaranteed transfer or almost guaranteed transfer after a certain threshold of GPA at a certain school (usually liberal art schools) is not an anomaly.
However, if I could give advises to all those “high school students”, I would state the following.
“Please avoid the idea of a 3-2 program or a 4-1 program”.
- You will be paying for 5 years of tuition money. I am sure this is a no brainer to you but that's quite a chunk. Add in the fact that guaranteed transfer students might not get aid and what you get is... 3 years of liberal school cost of attendance and then 2 years of Columbia University SEAS cost of attendance. Considering SEAS has to pay more for 'cost of attendance' and tuition rises annually, I would not be surprised if by the time you complete your 3 years, SEAS would cost almost $90,000 a year. (e.g.) Let's say you attended Colgate Univ for the 3 years (great school!) around 70,000 a year times 3 years = 210,000 dollars (probably going to be far less if you get financial aid) Columbia Univ SEAS for 2 years around 90,000 a year times 2 years = 180,000 dollars (remember, guaranteed transfer usually get no aid in most schools) So, in worst case scenario, you pay 390,000 dollars for an undergraduate degree in engineering. Seriously? If that money was all debt, with your engineering degree in Columbia Univ, you will never pay back in your life unless you hit some jackpot. Other words, in a run for 'prestige', you will be a slave to money all your life.
However, let’s think more optimistically. Let’s say you got substantial financial aid from your liberal art school for 3 years. Well, even then, there is the huge cost of SEAS for 2 years.
Now, if you are really wealthy, go splurge yourself. However, this is not the main reason why I would heavily discourage 3-2 programs. I personally think education is a great place to spend money on. But… let’s look at #2 (the most critical)
- You won't have a college experience. This my friend, is something to be noted. You won't be able to "fit" in particularly anywhere (not always but most cases). Are you a Liberal Art College friend group buddy or Columbia Univ friend group buddy? You while being in both groups will not feel like in any groups. What I am saying is this: You won't feel completely connected with your liberal art college friends. Your Columbia friend probably won't see you much as friends as they already have their own intimate groups and don't really care for 'another' friend that would only be there for 1~2 years with them. I don't understand why you would sacrifice your whole social life (over the course of 5 years in which the bonds you make might last a lifetime) for simple 'prestige' that you glamorized in high school. 'Prestige' I think is not a good justification to feel like you are left out. Being someone who is both in 2 groups but not in close relationships with either is a rather pitiful thing. It's like being a ghost...
- You might change your major. Wait? No way. I'm different. I know I'm going to be an engineer. I wanted to be an engineer all my life... yadaadada Frankly, I think those statements are usually full of bs. I know peers who started with graduate level mathematics because they were super-passionate about pure mathematics who ended up becoming a chemistry major and so on. You to tell me someone who was so passionate to the point that they started Number theory and Topology first semester of college was not "passionate enough" for his major? I'm sure he still loves the subject and can't breath without it. However, college is a place in which sometimes you recognize you want to learn something else. It is very normal for someone to change your major and I too was a victim of this. In fact, having also done graduate level math and dreamed all my life since 5th grade to become a mathematician, I don't have a pure math degree!
- Engineering is pretty overhyped. Honestly, the field isn't that glamorizing as TVs or news portray. Maybe you love building. Maybe you love math. Maybe you love physics. Maybe you love programming. Who knows. Thing is, engineering like business is pretty much... not what you expect. Just imagine the stereotypical business cubical setting. That is most engineering jobs out there. So...
- How do you know engineering is for you? If you love math more, maybe you actually want to be an applied mathematician. Or physics? Applied physics. Or biology and math? Biomath. List goes on and on...
- Your 1st BS/BA or whatever from your first school won't even count at all. Seriously, with 5 years spent on that 3-2 program, I rather just get an undegrad degree from somewhere and then a Master's. Not only would it cost far less, companies (the outside world including the academia) would hold the two degrees more highly than the 3-2 program.
- A good engineering program in the USA already entails quite a substantial number of liberal arts courses. I think 2~3 humanities (or around there) per semester is honestly enough for one to get fully exposed to the liberal arts .
- You will most likely be heavily behind. Try outcompeting students who had Columbia's pacing with your original liberal art school pacing. Hahahha. Though some liberal art schools are just as challenging if not more, more than likely, you will feel overwhelmed and underprepared to handle Columbia's rigour. A nasty 2 years of "depression" and "self-doubt" and "regret" of why did I do the 3-2 program... I should have stayed in my liberal art school can be pretty unbearable for many (a regret that occurs due to "go for prestige" is pretty saddening).
Having written all that, if you can live with all of the above possibilities, then hey, ya, 3-2 programs are too good to be true.
Also, Columbia’s engineering is world class. In the past when SEAS used to report incoming freshmen data, it had the 2nd highest SAT score in the US colleges (1st being CalTech).
Good luck.
@AccCreate I very much appreciate and respect your response. It is full of very useful insights, but one thing I would like to mention is that I meet financial aid requirements, and I am not planning to enroll in this program unless I get accepted to a 100% financial need met LAC. I also appreciate your insights about friends and I do agree this is a very important aspect. I was thinking that maybe I would care about making more friends in the LAC and have some companionship in Columbia University. I think my situation differs from yours is that rather than living in the same city or town nearly my whole life, I moved a lot. So far I have changed schools 8 different times throughout my academic life ( which includes schools abroad) and each time I change to a different school, I might find that I might not be as advanced as the other students, but I drive myself to do better and meet- actually exceed the standards. I know this may not be the same situation when you are dealing with some of the world’s smartest students, but I would just like to provide some narrative of my background. Again, I really appreciate your insights about majors too. I thought that a liberal arts college will give me some time to choose a major, but I know that I’m interested in the sciences: chemistry and physics. Also, do you think and employer would prefer someone with a degree in physics and chemical engineering or a ChemE with a masters degree. I always thought that having to degrees meant that you were more versatile, but anyways, that was my backup plan if I did not meet the requirements. Again, I can’t thank you enough for the effort and valuable insights you gave me.
How are you planning to pay for Columbia after attending an LAC? Transfers generally don’t get much aid.
@austinmshauri I contacted Columbia and they said that they do offer need based aid for the Combined Plan students.
A 3+2 from a really good LAC to a really good engineering university will be very marketable to employers.
@ClarinetDad16 I believe that too! But unfortunately, everything comes at a cost. Whether it’s social life in college or its market value later on. Sometimes from a high school perspective, all you see is money.
You need the 3.3 GPA and have to get a B or better in every required class. If the LAC’s STEM classes are close to Columbia’s in rigor, that would not be easy (assuming that you’re not already able to get 5’s in BC Calc and other AP science classes). If they are not, you will be slaughtered once you get to Columbia.
Look, when it comes to getting a degree from a prestigious school, there are many easier ways other than entering with the regular fall undergrad cohort (especially if applying RD), where, IMO, the competition is too insane if you are unhooked. Especially when you look at many master’s programs. In fact, these days, you just need a high enough LSAT and GPA to get in to any T14 law school besides YLS and SLS (including HLS).