Columbia GS Reality vs Perception

Colleges and Universities A-Z Columbia School of General Studies
1

<p>Hi all,</p>

<p>I wanted to post all the information I could to help educate people who are considering GS, but are having second thoughts due to the negative posts throughout the majority of these [ivy league] college forums. I was recently admitted into Columbia GS, a fact that I take tremendous pride in, and the decision to apply to Columbia was not a hard one to make. *(A little side note about myself: I do not rush into decisions that will have a tremendous impact on my life both mentally and financially). I wanted to be as thorough as possible after considering Columbia GS, so I read and researched just about everything I could that had to do, or mentioned, Columbia GS and this is what I have found:</p>

<p>Brief Overview:
Columbia GS is one of the official three undergraduate schools at Columbia University, dedicated to non-traditional students. The other two undergraduate schools that make up Columbia University are Columbia College and Columbia Engineering (formerly known as SEAS), which are dedicated to traditional students. You must apply to GS if you have taken at least a one year break in your education, and you cannot apply to either CC/CE if you have taken more than two semester course loads at another school. In addition, you are automatically ineligible to apply to CC if you have taken over a year break from school. Also, you cannot apply to more than one school during the same cycle. </p>

<p>Being that all three schools are official undergraduate schools of Columbia University, they are all considered to be in the "Ivy League". Some have questioned the prestige of Columbia GS because the admissions process and criteria differs from that of CC, but it should also be mentioned that CE too has a completely different admission process and criteria from either schools. This is because all three schools have different admission committees that review their own applicants for each specific school, thus the different admission rates for each school. The rankings are based on the combined average CC/CE admission rates. GS rates are excluded in the overall admission rates, because (from what I've gathered):
1.) Most applicants for GS are transfers opposed to first year students
2.) GS applicants are non-traditional it would not make sense to lump them into the admission rates with the other traditional applicants considering there is different criteria that are examined. Nearly all the other schools in the nation only record traditional students admission rates, it only makes sense for Columbia to do the same.
*if there are more logical reasons I'm sure someone else with add to this section.</p>

<p>Now, I have no idea what life is like at Columbia nor after graduation, but the fact of the matter is that GS is a part of Columbia U, regardless of how the other students or peers throughout academia view GS students. Prestige has become synonymous with admission rates, but I would not be too worried about GS admission rates considering there is only a fraction of qualified applicants able to apply to GS (about 1500-2000 transfer apps) compared to the 34,000 first year apps CC/CE had this past year. Not to mention CE had admission rates varying between 23-31% prior to 2006. In reality if you took CC/CE admissions rate for 2005(I believe this is the correct year) CC had a rate of 12% and CE had a rate of 31% making their combined rate about 21.5%, similar to the rate of what GS posted recently. Their marks have come down dramatically in recent years (especially after Obama was elected in 2008), but this is because of the substantial increase in applicants. As the years pass, GS will continue to have lower acceptance rates as it becomes more well known (if you want to look at it in that light).</p>

<p>As for the classes, there are only a few that GS students can't automatically register for (I believe they can petition for registration into these courses however), but they have the same equivalent courses in the GS sections. The rest of the classes, including the core requirements are the same and integrated. You learn side by side with the other students of the college as well as from the same professors, and graduate with the same Columbia University degree, with only minor adjustments:</p>

<p>GS diploma:
Regarding</a> the School of General Studies Diploma | General Studies
This is an image of the diploma, posted on the GS website</p>

<p>CE diploma:
File:SEASdiploma2003.jpg</a> - WikiCU, the Columbia University wiki encyclopedia
As you can see this is nearly identical to the GS diploma (along with 13 graduate school diploma)</p>

<p>CC diploma:
File:Ccdiploma2007.jpg</a> - WikiCU, the Columbia University wiki encyclopedia
Diplomas</a> - WikiCU, the Columbia University wiki encyclopedia
Only CC and Columbia Law have diplomas in Latin, but are worded the same as the other diplomas (including the GS diploma)</p>

<p>The only real difference you will find with these diplomas are the dean's signature line. They will correspond to the specific school in which you attended (ie: General Studies, Columbia College, etc..)</p>

<p>One last this I wanted to reiterate, is that GS is a unique school within the "Ivy League". There is no other "Ivy League" school that houses a specific undergraduate college for non-traditional students. Yale and Brown have programs within their college, but they are not schools of either institution. Yale only accepts about 5-10 transfers (and usually they are extreme cases such as Mike Richter - former NY Rangers Goaltender) into their Eli Whitney program, who graduate with a degree from Yale College, because there is no other undergraduate school at Yale. The same goes for Brown's RUE program; however, you must be away from school for at least 5 years. The other programs mentioned on this board that were compared to GS were Harvard extension and UPenn LPS. Harvard extension is similar to Columbia's School of Continued Education, but is open enrollment. You can take courses at Harvard under certain contingencies, and you will not be fully integrated as some people alluded to. UPenn's LPS is not a school, it is actually a program housed within another college (School of Arts & Sciences) at UPenn.</p>

<p>I hope this helps. It is late so please forgive any misspellings or shortcomings. If I left out any information, I will add it another time.</p>

2

<p>It does help, so thank you for your vote of confidence. I have been back and forth on it, but also came up with pretty much the same conclusion, with my only real ascertation having to come from the real world in some fashion. I haven’t gotten to that point yet, but I am unquestionably going to be submitting my app this summer. This too, is after gargantuan deliberation on the matter, as I just see Columbia GS being the best fit for me.</p>

<p>Hopefully I will also have the same fortune as some of you here in terms of getting accepted, and I look forward to getting to know y’all. </p>

<p>If admitted, I will do what I can to re-assert GS’ legitimacy, hopefully with the help of my peers.</p>

<p>Good luck in the coming years. :)</p>

3

<p>I wish you good luck in the future, and hopefully you’ll be joining us on campus! More information is better than no information for the misinformed, but at the end of the day people have to see it through their own eyes - not someone else’s.</p>

4

<p>Normally, I’d shy away from saying something like this but to hopefully sway anyone on the fence about GS:</p>

<p>I’m a GS student, and now have a job offer when I graduate (I’m not even graduated yet) that any SEAS, CC, Wharton, Harvard, or whoever kid would kill for. </p>

<p>Not in any way trying to say GS is better than the schools/programs within Columbia at all, but it is worth every dollar, and every ounce as incredible.</p>

5

<p>Nice overview. Would like to add that I think what most people leave out is that Columbia isn’t Harvard. There is no easy A. It is extremely intense, and is the intellectual center of NYC. There are almost daily, open events, that feature an audience of professors in CUNY, NYU, Collumbia, YU, Fordham etc., with the opportunity to just walk over to them and discuss their field of expertise freely. Also, you can walk straight into any of the other buildings, the Journalism building,or the engineering one, city planning etc. etc. and there are world experts freely available.</p>

6

<p>Just wondering what you mean by “Columbia isn’t Harvard, there is no easy A”</p>

7

<p>I think he’s implying that Harvard has some easy A classes? Maybe?</p>

8

<p>I think that it’s a complete waste of time to worry about previous negative posts made about GS, whether your diploma looks different from the CC diploma, whose diploma is in English vs. Latin, and what prospective employers will think when you mention GS. First, you will graduate from an IVY LEAGUE UNIVERSITY because you worked hard and persevered through some of the most amazing classes and studied alongside incredibly smart students and professors that you will experience in your life, EVER. When I speak with a prospective employer or when I applied to grad school, they didn’t want a copy of my diploma and they didn’t grill me about GS. The bottom line is that I graduated from Columbia University, that’s it…Columbia University. It is absolutely not necessary to tell a story about GS, our non-traditional route, etc. They aren’t interested because what they do want to see is your transcript. So, my advice is to plunge into your classes and forget the noise. I do not have one ounce of guilt or remorse about the time I took for myself and the money that I spent and still owe. It was worth it!</p>

9

<p>Sorry to hijack this thread but it seems to be reviewed and commented on by alumni of GS, just the type of people I need to help me in my decision. Please visit my thread and comment on your experience at GS and your opportunities after graduation/whether it was worth it. Thank you for your time and consideration. </p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1515788-columbia-gs-vs-michigan-vs-emory-vs-scps-vs-scs-vs-smu.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1515788-columbia-gs-vs-michigan-vs-emory-vs-scps-vs-scs-vs-smu.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

10

<p>The only people that seem to “question the prestige” of GS are incoming GS students. Nobody else cares or talks about it. The classes are literally the same classes that CC students take (unlike Barnard, which is the only school that actually DOES get a bad rap - different classes and core requirements). The only classes GS students can’t automatically register for are University Writing (which divides everybody by undergraduate school) and any physical education class (which you just need to get your advisor to place you in since its not a core requirement for GS). Everything else is the same. I am a junior in GS and all of these applicants/newly admitted students who tell each other horror stories about how GS is looked down on and doesn’t get to participate in undergrad clubs and whatnot - its all untrue BS. You can join any club, sorority/fraternity, sports team (unless you were a professional athlete in that sport), etc. You get the same exact premed/prelaw advisors. You get the same recruitment events (literally - they dont differentiate by school). The “GS is looked down upon” thing is a total myth. If anything, CC students look up to GS students: most of the students that find out I’m GS always say something along the lines of “so what is your story, because all the GS students I’ve met have some incredible story of what they did before coming to Columbia - you guys have real world experience” and GS has the highest GPA of ANY SCHOOL IN COLUMBIA.</p>

11

<p>I’m a second year at GS. I love it. Nobody cares how you got to Columbia. You’re there to learn, and you take the same classes with everyone else, who’s grinding it all the same as you are. I was initially worried that everyone was a genius and that I would get owned by these top students, but the truth of the matter is, while most really are very smart, a good percentage also simply just worked very hard to get here. Once you’re at Columbia, you’re at Columbia. Seriously, no one cares which school you’re in. They care what major you’re working on, and many simply chat about that topic instead. Keep your eye on the prize. You graduate with a Columbia degree. Your cap and gown will be light blue. The same recruiters for CC hold recruiting events for you too. Did I not already say it’s amazing? </p>

<p>I will say this though: the class load is challenging. You need 124 credits to graduate and most of your classes are worth around 3 units. That said, you’ll likely need to pack on 5-6 classes a term to graduate on time. If you double major, the workload is a beast. The classes themselves are no harder than any other class anywhere else, but it does become pretty tough if you’re drowning on the workload.</p>

12

<p>Okay, as a current GS student, I feel that I can add to this discussion. Let me tell you, the ONLY people that care whether or not you are in GS are seriously CC students and/or CC alumni. This is widely agreed upon because CC kids seem to have a prestige complex. CC students believe they are “above” Barnard, SEAS and GS - they just seem to think they are better than anyone. I know this because I have CC friends and co-workers who have expressed this kind of sentiment. They do not say bad things about GS in front of me, but I’ve heard them talk about Barnard and many of them say things like, “They think they are entitled to everything Columbia has,” “They are a second-rate school,” and “Barnard girls to bed. Columbia girls to wed.” The sense of superiority among most/all CC students is pretty disturbing. So, it is not just GS that receives backlash from CC, but also, all of the other schools. </p>

<p>I think anyone thinking about applying to GS should know this because I was not aware of this until I enrolled here. That being said, people who don’t care what school you are in are: the professors, the other students, the administration, and graduate schools and employers (from what I’ve read on other posts). </p>

<p>GS students have to take the exact same classes and have nearly the exact same requirements for graduation, so the prejudice that CC students harbor is ungrounded and maybe a little desperate. I have a theory that it is maybe because GS students consistently outperform GS, as a whole, that there may be latent bitterness. GS has had the highest GPA among all four undergraduate schools in all recent years while taking the exact same classes, so it is a fact that GS students perform “better” than CC students. In general, I have noticed that a lot of GS students sit in front of class, participate in class and generally try very hard. If I could characterize GS in a few words, it would be that they are the most humble, hardworking and sometimes eclectic of the four schools. </p>

<p>Despite some CC students’ need for validation, I have found my experience at GS to be great. For me, GS challenged me to be a better scholar and I improved my writing, reading and thinking abilities exponentially faster than in any other year in my life. If you want to broaden your mind and experience a the kind of scholarly and inspirational environment that you probably will never experience again, you should attend Columbia. </p>

13

<p>Yes, this sentiment does exist. CC, then SEAS then everyone else.</p>

14

<p>There are FOUR official undergraduate colleges at Columbia. The fourth is Barnard. So there’s Columbia College, General Studies, Engineering (SEAS), and Barnard. The person who says that Barnard gets a bad rap is about as accurate as a CC student saying that GS students get a bad rap. He/she’s judging from his personal POV. Is it right? In my opinion, not at all. Barnard diplomas are from Columbia University. Unlike Columbia professors, Barnard professors must hurdle two tenure processes, both Barnard and then Columbia U. Columbia students may take Barnard classes as much as Barnard students may take Columbia classes and SEAS classes. They all share the same facilities and study alongside each other. Do employers or grad schools care that someone comes from SEAS, CC, GS or Barnard? Not at all. Does Barnard have to do the “core”? No they do not. Does that mean Barnard education is a lesser degree? Again, not the case. Many of the “best” schools in the world do not have a core. MIT students Caltech, Berkeley, Stanford, Brown, Cornell, UPenn, Vassar, Bowdoin, Williams. These peer schools and many other peer schools also do not require the intense Columbia core. Many would argue that’s a GOOD thing, not a bad thing. Why spend so much time on a core that you feel doesn’t address your learning needs? Most of the best colleges in the country in fact do not have a core. Again, this doesn’t make one bad or good. It makes each experience different. Please, no snobbery Mr/Ms GS student about the Barnard education. It’s unbecoming.</p>