<p>Hey guys,</p>
<p>I've been reading up on Columbia GS as it is University which interests me as an international prospective student.</p>
<p>I have heard that the recruiting for Columbia GS students is worse than the one for regular Columbia College students. Is there any truth to this?</p>
<p>Any input appreciated.</p>
<p>-Simon</p>
<p>simon, i do not know what you mean by recruiting, as in recruiting for jobs? that isn’t necessarily true if that is the case. all students gs/cc/seas are lumped together when it comes to job recruiting and their consideration as undergraduate students. though each students resume from there is what will decide their fortune usually.</p>
<p>Hello admissionsgeek,</p>
<p>Yes, I am talking about job recruiting. That’s what I’ve read on these two links.</p>
<ul>
<li>[How</a> is Columbia GS school viewed by BBs? | WallStreetOasis.com](<a href=“http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/how-is-columbia-gs-school-viewed-by-bbs]How”>How is Columbia GS school viewed by BBs? | Wall Street Oasis)</li>
<li>[Columbia</a> GS vs UCLA bizecon | WallStreetOasis.com](<a href=“http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/columbia-gs-vs-ucla-bizecon]Columbia”>Columbia GS vs UCLA bizecon | Wall Street Oasis)</li>
</ul>
<p>Thanks
-Simon</p>
<p>First off both of those threads are not very helpful and most have wrong information.</p>
<p>this is how recruiting works at CU, and i know concoll is pretty much an expert on this so chime in where i’m off.</p>
<p>CCE is the office that handles recruiting and they treat undergrad recruiting equally (they don’t care about your school - whether you are gs/college/engineering). To them you are an ugrad. They organize mixers, send out emails, and GS students are equally able to attend those events as anyone else. </p>
<p>Recruiting for banks occurs for internships usually around January of Junior year, and then again Sep-Nov of Senior year for hiring. You will be asked to submit a resume/cover letter, and many times on the resume they will want to see leadership, your SAT scores (yeah they care), and maybe any econ/math classes you’ve taken. This is probably where some GS students are put at a slight disadvantage, mostly because you cannot quantify experience, and often some GS students took their SAT scores many years ago, or some just took the GS entrance test so they do not have an SAT score to send. Lastly, a lot of GS students do not go through the hoopla of student activities, which frankly do matter in the selection process for many banks, they like to see that you had leadership (sound like college applications anyone?). And while you are busy being normal, banks award people who are involved - in something, doesn’t have to be president of your class.</p>
<p>A recruiting committee will most likely read the applications, sift through the bunch, and call back a good handful, from there you will have 2-4 interviews before you are offered a job. Like college admissions, there is a preference toward people with high numbers - high GPA, high SATs. But what sells a student over another is almost always the interview and the rapport they can have in what is sometimes a grueling process. For most students, the hardest part is getting the interview, for other students, the hardest part is coming off interesting in the interview.</p>
<p>Throughout the entire recruitment process you need not even mention the distinction between GS/CC/SEAS, as your interviewer unless they attended Columbia, doesn’t know that such differences occur. To them you are an econ (or whatever) major at Columbia with stellar everything. </p>
<p>In one sense - you will be recruited the same. And Columbia has access to more recruiters than most schools out there (bar a few). In another sense, there are some structural impediments that you need to get around to make sure you come across as impressive. Namely - banks’ obsession with numbers and leadership experience. If you have the numbers - GPA/SAT wise, that is good. So make sure you get involved either on campus or off when you get to GS. A good substitute to being involved on campus is interning early and often, and getting the experience that you can fill up a resume and show you have the capacity to be a team leader.</p>
<p>And if you’re between UCLA and GS, GS will provide you a great academic experience and open up a lot more doors. Regardless of the pettiness we sometimes display on here, or even on campus, GS is 1) not that well known, thus people just assume you went to Columbia, 2) most people don’t care, a few years out it is how well you do in your job that will matter.</p>
<p>and to add a point, i knew quite a few GS students and could see the full gamut. some students struggled, others were busy doing other things (families, etc.).</p>
<p>but i knew at least 15 GS students who ended up going to either big time management consulting or bank firms. plus most of those kids just had incredible stories and well it was obvious they were more impressive even than the most impressive 21 yo student. </p>
<p>let’s not beat on GS too much, there is an incredible amount of talent there. the hard part is that GS doesn’t just serve the uber-talented, it is what makes it such a great school - it is great for international students who need more english training, for folks that want more of a challenge, for vets that want to take advantage of the yellow-ribbon program, for ballerinas that are looking to get back to the classroom. the diversity of GS makes it easy to obfuscate some realities - the school puts out consistently some of the most intelligent people at columbia, and those kids are rewarded.</p>
<p>Thank you very much for your detailed answer, this really cleared some things up. One more question though, as a GS student, do you have the same options to get involved into Campus live & clubs (For the ‘leadership’ experience)?</p>
<p>Actually CC/SEAS have their own job database at their alumni network website. Many top bank and consulting firms recruit only at CC/SEAS. </p>
<p>CC/SEAS pre-med, pre-law, and graduate school advisor are separete from GS and GS students can not access CC/SEAS resources.</p>
<p>So GS students do NOT get the priviledges Columbia College students get? Too many different opinions, could anyone clear this up? ;-)</p>
<p>Thanks
-Simon</p>
<p>Hi. So I’ll list some of the privileges that are not available to GS students. GS students cannot enter most of the dorms. I know for a fact that they can’t enter Carman Hall, unless they have a class in the Dorm. And even then, they get hassled a lot.</p>
<p>GS student usually live off campus and in apartments provided by the university. These buildings are usually not well kept and the housing for GS students are overseen by the same person as those for the rest of the student body.</p>
<p>As for activities and leadership, I think that it will be pretty difficult to obtain any leadership in club activities as being older (If you are significantly older) will put off your fellow club members. It’s harder for GS students to connect with the younger generation.</p>
<p>The question I have, is why not just apply to CC or SEAS?</p>
<p>hi simon, definitely! but a lot of it has to do with making friends with other undergraduates that are not in gs. many gs students (because of age or living off campus) decide they don’t necessarily wish to be involved. but it will surprise you just how active some students are (and they are not always the ones who are part of the gssc, which is the student council). </p>
<p>when i was a first year looking for something to do, i was attracted to the tv station, where this guy was absolutely incredibly knowledgeable about everything - a fantastic leader, he was a GS student, and i didn’t know it for awhile.</p>
<p>at dude and collegeboy: you’d be surprised how many gs students are part of your clubs and organizations. it is asking the same question of bc students. in recent memory, a gs student has served as presidents of ctv, ccr, on the boards of hillel (obviously), cu dems, cqa, abc, sgb, many cultural groups including bso, ussc, tasa. for clubs and activities all students are advised by either OSGA or SDA, and Kevin Shollenberger has made it a point to assure students from GS that they feel welcome.</p>
<p>it is unethical to only recruit at cc/seas, by CCE’s standard. they could eventually only choose cc/seas, but they have to allow other applicants. though as i mentioned the standard is certainly very high, and of course nepotism/favoritism always plays a role, it has not and does not impede GS students from being hired by top firms.</p>
<p>at simon: it is a different experience. i am assuming you’ve done your homework on some aspects of GS (financial aid, living off campus), and still feel it is the appropriate option. and each school certainly has its particularities - CC does have an alumni mentoring initiative specifically for CC students, as SEAS has their own. they have more active alumni bases. GS students have tended to gravitate toward the CAA (the overarching alumni group), and there you’ll find some 25,000 alumni registered online that you could contact and ask for job advice/support. </p>
<p>and though i can’t speak to prelaw advising, GS undoubtedly has better premed advising, considering they run a postbac premed office, all gs students (even those not in the program), have access to that office, which is a tank at helping students get into med schools.</p>
<p>THe privileges that CC/SEAS students get can be found here:
[Center</a> for Student Advising | Student Affairs](<a href=“http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/csa]Center”>Center for Student Advising | Columbia College and Columbia Engineering)</p>
<p>e.g.
Office of Preprefessional Advising manages Premed Committee Evaluation and Dean’s Certification process for Med and Law schools admission.
[The</a> Office of Preprofessional Advising | Student Affairs](<a href=“http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/preprofessional]The”>Preprofessional Advising | Columbia College and Columbia Engineering)</p>
<p>CC/SEAS also have combined alumni program.
[Student</a> and Alumni Programs | Student Affairs](<a href=“http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/dean/alumni_programs.php]Student”>http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/dean/alumni_programs.php)
The job database through this progam is for CC/SEAS only. Many top finance and consulting jobs are available. ( and it is separate from CCE)
<a href=“http://www.college.columbia.edu/alumni/committees/studentalumni[/url]”>http://www.college.columbia.edu/alumni/committees/studentalumni</a></p>
<p>Academic Success program such as tutoring.
[Tutoring</a> Service | Student Affairs](<a href=“http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/asp/tutoring/]Tutoring”>Center for Student Advising Tutoring Service | Columbia College and Columbia Engineering)</p>
<p>Legacy Status for CC/SEAS students
"applicants are considered to be “legacies” of Columbia only if they are the children of Columbia College or the Fu Foundation School of Engineering and Applied Science graduates. "
[Applications</a> & Admission Process | Columbia University Office of Undergraduate Admissions](<a href=“http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/admissions/faq/admissions.php]Applications”>http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/admissions/faq/admissions.php)</p>
<p>There are more previlieges for CC/SEAS only …</p>
<p>No disrespect to Dean Wittner, but there are no jobs explicitly available thru student and alumni programs. Though there are some networking opps (as well as other mentoring initiatives). But of every event I attended or was invited to, and I did many, no job was ever offered. I also know the office, who works there, and what they do offer. </p>
<p>GS has its own tutoring service in which the tutors are also students - they are equivalant. </p>
<p>And as I mentioned GS has a great premed process because they have a truly well developed system. And frankly, not all law students apply and use the prelaw process because there is no Dean certification required.</p>
<p>On the merits, none of your statements save legacy status are really a ‘privilege.’ and that involves some potential child one that might apply to Columbia 30 years down the line. There are reasons to attend Columbia College over GS, but none of the above are outstanding reasons. I actually know a really smart kid who chose to apply to GS over CC because he wanted a less-traditional college environment, he had only done a postgrad year volunteering and would have qualified for CC, but chose against it.</p>
<p>^^Well than admissionsgeek. That kid probably was not that smart or was naive. If you want to be a full-time undergrad, CC or SEAS trumps GS any day.</p>
<p>no dude - he had a choice, and he choose against cc. i don’t think it is miraculous to believe that. </p>
<p>every year students choose harvard and yale over columbia even if they aren’t better experiences, because they have other priorities.</p>
<p>and for some students - particularly those that either do not qualify for cc admissions, or require a different kind of support (international students who want to do an ALP first), gs is a fantastic OPTION. option being the key word. it doesn’t mean that is their only option, but it is one of many. </p>
<p>what they do, is their choice.</p>
<p>and that kid…graduated summa cum laude and won about every award in the book. people make choices. not the same ones you would make, but it is their decision.</p>
<p>Clearly GS resources are different from CC/SEAS.</p>
<p>GS can not even join yearbook.
[Welcome</a> to the Official Columbian Yearbook Website!](<a href=“http://www.columbia.edu/cu/yearbook/]Welcome”>http://www.columbia.edu/cu/yearbook/)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Many law schools require Dean’s certification.
[Dean's</a> Certification | Student Affairs](<a href=“http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/preprofessional/law/applying/certification.php]Dean’s”>Dean's Certification | Columbia College and Columbia Engineering)</p>
<p>ack, i did confuse here…columbia doesn’t require as it does for med school applicants that all students must apply thru medschool committee. thus not all students do use the university’s prelaw office extensively, all they do is go in to the office, or equivalently their dean in gs, and get someone to sign a sheet.</p>
<p>if you think that is somehow a privilege…</p>
<p>but i do apologize for not clarifying.</p>
<p>So it seems like for an international student it’s not too much of a good idea to go to Columbia GS if he intends to find a job in NYC after graduating (It’s hard enough with the visa issue, so it’s going to be even harder if there is not so strong recruiting)?</p>
<p>hey simon, i’m sorry the naysayers made you doubt. frankly they are wrong, and as someone with experience getting a job and with friends in gs, i know they are wrong. i think ultimately it is your choice.</p>
<p>GS recruiting is better than most schools out there because it is columbia recruiting, they are one in the same. Particularly for the niche it holds, it will get you a good job. There are as they note - nepotistic attitudes out there, and people who went to Columbia College like Columbia College kids first, but ultimately there is a greater Columbia U. attitude there too. I don’t know what qualifies them to act the way they have on here.</p>
<p>Students choose GS in many ways because they want the Ivy League name, the rigorous education, and of course the access to recruiting resources. Many times students couldn’t get that because their age or nontraditional background excludes them from schools that have that same lobbying power - i.e. the traditional ugrad schools - Harvard College, Columbia College. Thus there are many students like you that choose GS because it will give them that access they desire, and the alternative is not available.</p>
<p>Even if you say that GS is not Columbia College (CC), GS is not analogous to a State School, its recruiting is better than most private universities in this country.</p>
<p>As i’ve said on here a few times, I think that if you want a great education, and if financially GS will not be a burden, its a great option that it will help you get a great job.</p>