??? What do you want her to say? “Yes actually because I’m scared of rape I’m not going to go to college”? We’re all scared of rape. That doesn’t mean we simply try to avoid the schools where it happens. No women would ever go to school if that were the case.
bodangles,
Except that there is a perception among many, that fraternity men “rape more.” So I’m asking: if you are a woman who believes that fraternity men are likely to rape more, why would you chose to attend a college with a very high percentage of men in fraternities? Most colleges have fewer than 40% participating, thus wouldn’t the perception also be that they are safer for women?
Once again a story fit the popular narrative and was accepted as truth. Group punishment was given. Calls for changes to laws and policies were demanded. Those who questioned the veracity of the story were called out and their motives questioned, i.e. “How could you support rapists?”
Once the story unravels, we are told the story isn’t that important as the problem is real and change must be made. Doesn’t matter if the lives or reputations are ruined as the cause is just. Besides the publications gave out a half hearted apology when it was obvious the story could no longer be supported.
Perhaps she plans to not associate with them. 40% Greek means 60% not.
In any case, it’s her life.
Yes, its her life. And she is not in a fraternity, (or sorority), yet continues to spread the unsubstantiated narrative that “something is really wrong” with them. Like RS and Ederley, people need to be called on their unsubstantiated allegations about things they publish on public message boards. They are talking about other real people and their real lives and reputations.
@xiggy - Wow. We usually agree on so much but your reaction to this is a little left field. Must be a reason that you are so anti Greek (and it truly does not need to be discussed here), but wow. The analogy is the rush to judgment when a teacher or coach is charged with abuse. Because of the very real cases that have come to light, those that have been accused unjustly have had their lives destroyed by overzealous reporting. Somehow that “apology” never gets the same amount of press as the initial rush to judgment.
As a proud member of a sorority that I joined as a graduate member at 50 years old (yes, AA sororities are truly for life), I am well aware of the issues with greek hazing and misconduct. And yes, there are some organizations who have entitled members who think they can get away with almost anything, whether it is rape or inappropriate and offensive racial remarks. But just like we cannot broad brush all teachers for the bad behaviors of a few, we must use the same caution when broadbrushing other groups, be it greeks, African Americans, gays, women, the rich, Republicans, Democrats…
That my take on it.
Unsubstantiated. Right.
Check out Penn State’s newest scandal and tell me everything is perfectly fine in Greekland.
@Bay I am not anti- Greek life. I’m really not. But we cannot pretend that there is a problem on college campuses. I view the problem in Greek life the same as I do for college in general. That doesn’t mean I won’t go to college. I am well aware of NU’s high percentage of people in Greek Life, and I’m okay with it. I am considering going Greek myself. But that doesn’t mean that I should pretend like Greek life is 100% safe. It comes with risks, as does everything else in life. That doesn’t mean I won’t try it.
My allegations are unsubstantiated? Really? When there are schools that classify ‘non consensual penetration’ and ‘rape’ as two different things, there is a problem both at the institutional level and in Greek life.
There’s also the “perception” that Black men rape more, commit crime more, etc. This is the very reason why Black parents are now afraid to let their sons walk the streets, even on these very college campuses you are talking about. Be careful
CaliCash,
If and when you join college Greek life, I hope you will come back on this site to share your perspectives.
You are in high school and have zero first hand experience. I am in a large college fraternity, I have tons of first hand experience.
Every fraternity party I’ve ever been to has been safer than any house party I’ve ever been to. Sure it’s different everywhere, but fraternities are getting more and more security all the time. Recently a house at my school spent a ton of money on walkie talkies for the sole purpose of better communication among sober brothers.
Fraternity parties are constantly getting safer, other parties are remaining the same or getting worse.
@Decidesomehow – If you can find another legitimate source of that donation information, I’d be happy to look at it. I would however counter with some interesting Gallup information for fraternities and sororities
Having posted on this for more than a decade, I think that I have expressed my reasons quite often. Although I believe that the presence of Greek organizations as part of the mission of our education system should be revisited, I am not naïve enough to think that this will ever happen. Because of a number of reasons, starting with the often romantic and nostalgic view of the past generations, there will be always be ample support.
But what could be expected? How about a college administration that shows the necessary spine to deal when problems when they are CLEARLY occurring. And that spine should take a different form than the despicable showing by Dr. Kim at Dartmouth and the subsequent “dialogue” with … the perennial offenders!
What else could be expected? How about punishment that fits the crime? How about permanent banning of the chapters that engage in reprehensible and … criminal behavior?
Simply stated, should the actors in this story
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/frat-brothers-scrawled-slurs-all-over-cu-student-s-body
ever be accepted on campus after the incidents? Should that chapter ever be reauthorized again in Colorado?
How should “we” really deal with organizations such as SAE in light of their repeated “faux-pas?” Would it really be too much to ask that a chapter where a negligent death occurred be permabanned? And I mean permanent as in forever and not the cynical interpretation that 5 years is a valid proxy for permanent. How many deaths should an national organizations have to defend before facing a national ban?
All those questions are not about unjustly pursuing cases of trivial misbehavior. It is about dealing with the more egregious cases when the facts are clearly established. Nobody wants fabricated stories. But, as I mentioned earlier, there were good reasons why the story appeared believable: many DO know that the incident was plausible. Not real as the facts indicate but plausible in the minds of the many who have WITNESSED what happens on your typical campus where policing is weak. Do we really have to question the many accounts of organized debauchery and behavior that are directly related to binge drinking?
Processes of investigation should reveal what really happened in such cases. Obviously, THIS case was wrong. Some were unjustly accused but the truth emerged. Now, can we deal with cases were the truth points to incredibly bad behavior, including deaths?
When the day comes that I can type “Fraternity Suspended” into Google, and not get results of fraternity chapters that were suspended within the week, any time during the school year, then I’ll start believing that fraternities are not a menace.
This week’s police blotter:
SAE at Clemson, suspended for a “Cripmas” party
Pi Kappa Phi at Penn State, suspended for hazing, alcohol, disorderly conduct and lying to investigators
Phi Beta Sigma at Salisbury University (Maryland), suspended for hazing
Kappa Sigma at UT Tyler, suspended during an investigation of suspected rapes at their parties
I know, I’m supposed to pretend that I don’t believe that all those rotten apples mean that the barrel is full of rotten apples. But we’re pulling out three or four rotten apples every week. I say, we have a barrel with a lot of rotten apples in it if we can pull out three or four rotten apples every week.
@"Cardinal Fang"
I started writing a defense to each accusation but I deleted it.
You can’t judge an entire group of people based on the actions of a few. Athletes get in trouble all the time and they are beloved.
You can’t say that all black people are criminals because you see news stories every week.
Some fraternities are bad, those ones are dying. Greek life is getting more and more popular every year. The cream is rising to the top. The houses that continue to do bad things are being reprimanded and dying while the strong houses are getting more and more new members every year.
Greek life is evolving and becoming better.
Getting better does not appear to represent such a high bar, but we ought to take it. Now could it not get a LOT better if the frats in general learned to behave better and adopted a policy to ferret out their misbehaving brothers as opposed to defend them to the bitter end?
Or perhaps simply devote all their energy furthering the charitable causes they purportedly do, and abandon the practices that remain visible to most objective observers?
@xiggi
We could literally say this about any group of people. The Catholic church could get a LOT better if priests learned to behave better and adopted a policy to ferret out their misbehaving priests as opposed to defend them to the bitter end?
There are bad people everywhere.
This week there were four chapters suspended, and next week another couple will be suspended, and next week another few will be suspended, and on and on. I don’t see frats getting better. I see a pattern of misbehavior. Fraternities have been saying they’ll get better since before you were born. When are they going to get good?
@TransferGopher
Interesting response. The link you gave was actually one of the citations from the list I linked to. But if you want another source, how about this one - http://www.newsweek.com/college-rankings-2012-top-fraternities-64505 Its for frats only, and the total is about $5.3M. And from here- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North-American_Interfraternity_Conference the total member ship is 350,000. So from this, the per person frat donation is about $15, which is higher but still embarrassing for a collective organization that brags about charitable donations.
I will acknowledge that two of the fraternities gave 53% of the total money. [sarcasm]So I guess this is a case of some of the brothers giving the rest a good name[/sarcasm]
EDIT:not sure what is going on with the numbers, but I found the donation amounts here -http://www.statista.com/statistics/238827/us-fraternity-ranking-by-funds-donated-to-charity/ which cites the Newsweek article as the source, but many of the dollar amount in the Newsweek article are $0. So, I’ll give the stats the the benefit of doubt and not force the newsweek numbers.