Columbia or Stanford?

<p>Hi guys! I am fortunate enough to have been admitted by both Stanford and Columbia, but now I am struggling to make a choice. I am from mainland China and want to major in econ and go into investment banking in the future. Here are several things on my mind right now:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>With my intention to go into I-banking, NYC is just the perfect place to start. The connections and experiences I could acquire in NYC would help me a lot;</p></li>
<li><p>Stanford, in my impression, is more of a school focusing on the sciences, engineering, maths, CS and stuff instead of the arts. I am 99% sure I don't want to and am not able to get into those things considering my intelligence level... </p></li>
<li><p>Stanford is on the west coast and is therefore somewhat "isolated" from where I want to build my future (I love NYC and am pretty sure I will go there after graduation no matter what). I will have to take a more than 4-hour flight just to make an interview in NYC;</p></li>
<li><p>I am Chinese but I don't want to be drowned in a Chinese crowd in college. Considering Columbia's huge Chinese population, I might not get the American education I was expecting;</p></li>
<li><p>Stanford's overall reputation and prestige is higher (plz don't blame me for saying this) and is usually put along with HYP as a top-tier while Columbia on the next level;</p></li>
<li><p>As an international student, Stanford's sense of community might give me a warmer welcoming</p></li>
</ol>

<p>So, 1) Is the reputation of Stanford really higher than that of Columbia? 2) Would Stanford or Columbia be better for a girl who is going into I-banking/ private equity and stuff like that?</p>

<p>Thank you so much!</p>

<p>Columbia’s Chinese population “drowning,” you? Doubtful. Keep in mind that Stanford has a high Asian population on campus but neither school has a number that will ruin the “American education,” you are expecting(whatever that means). You clearly like the idea of going to Stanford but you think Columbia’s location makes it easier to get your feet wet in IB. Your talent level will actually get your foot “in the door,” it all depends on which school can show you more, “doors.” That’s all up to how much networking you’re willing to engage in. You’ll probably have to do a bit more at Stanford to reach Wall Street but if you learn what you’re supposed to you’ll get there someday. The future is great and all but it’s the here and now that shapes us and if you feel you’ll be a better fit at Stanford then go there . . .</p>

<p>Read this paper (<a href=“http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S027656241000065X[/url]”>http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S027656241000065X&lt;/a&gt;) and the answer should become clear. The short version of the story is that investment banks, law firms, and management consulting firms consider only a few schools to be on a tier of their own.
At the college level: Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and Princeton; Wharton in some instances
At the law school level: Harvard, Yale, and Stanford; Columbia in some instances
At the business school level: Harvard, Stanford, and Wharton</p>

<p>Is the difference in prestige between these two schools that big? Columbia’s ranking is ahead of Stanford this year after all…</p>

<p>It’s all subjective at this level…they are both top tier…just go where your gut tells you…</p>

<p>The point is you want to do investment banking. Do you wanna be 5 hrs away from Wall Street or 30 minutes? I’m not saying you can’t get an offer from Stanford, but try to make it as easy as possible, since breaking into investment banking is hard enough as is.</p>

<p>“Is the difference in prestige between these two schools that big? Columbia’s ranking is ahead of Stanford this year after all…”</p>

<p>Yes. Stanford belongs to HYPSM, while Columbia is no better than Duke, UChicago, Dartmouth, Penn, etc. Stanford also has a better PA score and a better international reputation ([Top</a> Universities by Reputation 2012](<a href=“http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2011-2012/reputation-rankings.html]Top”>World Reputation Rankings 2012 | Times Higher Education (THE))). Although Columbia is ranked 4th, it may drop to #10 in a few years. Duke was ranked number #4 a few years ago, but now it’s #10. The important thing to keep in mind is that USNews ranks schools to sell its magazines, but the reputations of the schools don’t change with the rankings.</p>

<p>Counselor’s ratings: [High</a> School Counselor Rankings | Rankings | Top National Universities | US News](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/high-school-counselor]High”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/high-school-counselor)</p>

<p>PA (<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/851132-peer-reputation-skews-rankings-ok-here-usnwr-rankings-w-peer-assessment-removed.html):%5B/url%5D”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/851132-peer-reputation-skews-rankings-ok-here-usnwr-rankings-w-peer-assessment-removed.html):</a>
4.9 , Harvard
4.9 , Princeton
4.9 , MIT
4.9 , Stanford
4.8 , Yale
4.7 , UC BERKELEY
4.6 , Caltech
4.6 , Columbia
4.6 , U Chicago
4.5 , U Penn
4.5 , Johns Hopkins
4.5 , Cornell</p>

<p>“Is the difference in prestige between these two schools that big? Columbia’s ranking is ahead of Stanford this year after all…”</p>

<p>HYPSM is an acronym people throw around on blogs like this, but it has no relevance in real life. There are definitely more Columbia alums represented on Wall Street than Stanford alums.</p>

<p>If you’re throwing the USNews rankings out the window, then you should throw out the PA assessments and Counselor rankings as well, as they comprise 25% of the weighting of the USNews rankings.</p>

<p>And I doubt many people actually believe Berkeley is more “prestigious” than Columbia, Princeton, or Yale as the other list Ivy presented suggests.</p>

<p>In fact, when it comes to student selectivity as measured by SAT scores and students in the top of their class, Columbia is more selective than Stanford. </p>

<p>Bust most importantly, what you should be thinking about is fit. These two schools couldn’t me more different with respect to their environments. One is in suburban California, and one is in urban Manhattan. If judging by wanting to be in i banking alone, I’d recommend Columbia…unless you prefer to be in the SF office of a bank. Other than that, visit both schools and decide which one feels more like “home” to you. You can’t really go wrong with either.</p>

<p>“You can’t really go wrong with either.”</p>

<p>Stanford is a stronger Wall Street feeder. For investment banking/consulting/S&T, schools can be divided into tiers:
Harvard/Wharton
Princeton/Stanford/Yale/MIT
Dartmouth/Columbia/Duke
Cornell/Penn CAS/UChicago…</p>

<p>“Stanford is a stronger Wall Street feeder.”</p>

<p>According to what? I work at a BB in NYC and have several friends who do too. Stanford is definitely more present in San Fran, but Columbia is definitely more represented in NYC.</p>

<p>"<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/investment-banking/459445-best-undergraduate-college-investment-banking-hedge-funding.html"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/investment-banking/459445-best-undergraduate-college-investment-banking-hedge-funding.html&lt;/a&gt;"&lt;/p&gt;

<p>You are only one person who worked at one bank. The thread contains info based on the observation of a lot more people.</p>

<p>[List</a> of Columbia University people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“List of Columbia University people - Wikipedia”>List of Columbia University people - Wikipedia)</p>

<p>[Columbia</a> Business School - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Business_School]Columbia”>Columbia Business School - Wikipedia)</p>

<p>The followings are notable Columbia graduates at Wall Street</p>

<p>Warren Buffett— Investor, president of Berkshire Hathaway
Vikram Pandit—(B.S.1976,M.S.1977,Ph.D1986,Trustee) CEO of Citigroup
James P. Gorman, MBA 1987, Chairman and CEO of Morgan Stanley
Todd Combs, hedge fund manager, tapped as a potential successor of Warren Buffett as CIO of Berkshire Hathaway
Martin D. Weiss— Financial market analyst, founder of Weiss Research, Inc
Stephen Friedman—Chairman of Goldman Sachs, National Economic Council director, chairman of the President’s Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board
Noam Gottesman—B.A., billionaire, GLG Partners
John Kluge—Founder of Metromedia
Henry Kravis—() Investment banker who invented the leveraged buyout
Randolph Lerner—(1984) CEO of MBNA Bank, and owner of Cleveland Browns
Frank Lorenzo—(B.A. 1961) corporate raider
Howard L. Clark, Jr., Chairman and CEO of Shearson Lehman Brothers
Peter A. Cohen, Chairman and CEO of Shearson Lehman Brothers
Michael Goodkin, Quantitative finance entrepreneur, founder of Arbitrage Management Company and Numerix
Philippe Jabre, CEO of Jabre Capital Partners
Li Lu, Chinese-American investment banker, fund manager, and investor; one of the student leaders of the Tiananmen Square student protests of 1989
William von Mueffling, Founder of Cantillon Capital Management
Henry Swieca, Billionaire Co-Founder of Highbridge Capital Management, Founder of Talpion
Alberto J. Verme, MBA 1984,Co-head of Global Investment Banking at Citigroup</p>

<p>It seems like Wall Street is dominated by Columbia graduates.</p>

<p>I only see one notable Stanford alumni at Wall Street
<a href=“List of Stanford University people - Wikipedia”>List of Stanford University people - Wikipedia;

<p>Where the Fortune 500 CEOs Went to College
[Where</a> the Fortune 500 CEOs Went to College - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/education/articles/2011/01/03/where-the-fortune-500-ceos-went-to-college]Where”>http://www.usnews.com/education/articles/2011/01/03/where-the-fortune-500-ceos-went-to-college)</p>

<p>Harvard University, Columbia University, and the University of Pennsylvania topped the list—the three schools cumulatively awarded 99 degrees to the executives. </p>

<ol>
<li>Harvard University</li>
<li>Columbia University</li>
<li>University of Pennsylvania</li>
<li>University of Wisconsin–Madison</li>
<li>Dartmouth College </li>
<li>Stanford</li>
</ol>

<p>It seem like Columbia graduates more successful then Stanford graduates even outside of Wall Street</p>

<p>Investment banker here (and CC’11 alum)…</p>

<p>IF you are definitely sure you want to do IB… then go to Columbia. Stanford does not have the alumni network in NY / London / HK investment banking that Columbia does (though Stanford will have stronger presence in Menlo Park offices - i.e. tech)</p>

<p>With that said. Take it from me - do not pick your school based on what you think you want to do four years from now. Investment Banking is a dying profession, and will change significantly over the next 3-5 years. </p>

<p>Embrace the education that Columbia / Stanford has to offer, let your mind explore and digress, and find something that you love rather than something you think you may want for all the wrong reasons (e.g. prestige, $$, models & bottles etc.)</p>

<p>My god fantamas, we are talking about the undergraduate schools here. Most of the columbia alumni that you list are from the graduate schools.</p>

<p>To your specific concerns, here’s my $0.02:</p>

<p>“1. With my intention to go into I-banking, NYC is just the perfect place to start. The connections and experiences I could acquire in NYC would help me a lot;”</p>

<p>Absolutely correct. Re. “experiences”, I got an MBA from Columbia, now live and work not far from Stanford, and there’s not a week that goes by when I don’t miss Manhattan. Silicon Valley is a cultural wasteland. Manhattan is the most exciting place on earth, for my money. Those extracurricular, non-professional experiences matter, too - and over the long run, they matter far more than your resume-building experiences, I think. You’re only young once.</p>

<p>“2. Stanford, in my impression, is more of a school focusing on the sciences, engineering, maths, CS and stuff instead of the arts. I am 99% sure I don’t want to and am not able to get into those things considering my intelligence level…” </p>

<p>New York is the world capital of the arts. I don’t know that <em>Columbia</em> attracts many or many more artistic types than Stanford, but in New York you’ll meet at least 10x as many real artists, writers, filmmakers, musicians, playwrights, actors, architects, and photographers as you would in SIlicon Valley. </p>

<p>San Francisco is <em>not</em> close to Stanford, btw: you have to drive (the rinky-dink train takes forever to arrive in a scummy part of SF), the traffic is horrific in both directions before 10am and after 2pm, parking is a nightmare, there are “Big Brother”-style traffic violation cameras all over the place, trolling for the cahnce to slap you with a $400+ fine. </p>

<p>In NYC mass transit is outstanding. I always found it exciting to hop in a cab at night and fly downtown past skyscrapers, Central Park, the M-P-L avenues, Broadway etc. Inching along Highway 101 into San Francisco past dozens of hideous billboards and some of the ugliest urban architecture of any major world city doesn’t compare.</p>

<p>“3. Stanford is on the west coast and is therefore somewhat “isolated” from where I want to build my future (I love NYC and am pretty sure I will go there after graduation no matter what). I will have to take a more than 4-hour flight just to make an interview in NYC;”</p>

<p>“I love NYC.” Listen to your heart on this. Consider also that Silicon Valley is imo at least as obsessed with money and the marketplace as New York is - actually, much more, given that people here have so little interest in culture, the arts, Europe. Do you know that San Jose could not even manage to support a professional symphony - despite the phenomenal wealth here and the hundreds of thousands of east asian families who are keen on classical music? What does that tell you?</p>

<p>“4. I am Chinese but I don’t want to be drowned in a Chinese crowd in college. Considering Columbia’s huge Chinese population, I might not get the American education I was expecting;”</p>

<p>New York is a world capital. You’re right: you may not get the “American” education you expect; you’ll get something far more interesting and more valuable: a world education. There are over a million people in New York who speak either French, German, Russian or Italian. In Silicon Valley, there aren’t more than a few thousand French or German or Russian or Italian speakers.</p>

<p>“5. Stanford’s overall reputation and prestige is higher (plz don’t blame me for saying this) and is usually put along with HYP as a top-tier while Columbia on the next level;”</p>

<p>Probably true. So leverage the Columbia network. Take a class in the business school if you can, and get to know some of the professors who work on Wall Street. These connections will trump the Stanford halo when it comes time to apply for internships and jobs.</p>

<p>“6. As an international student, Stanford’s sense of community might give me a warmer welcoming”</p>

<p>I didn’t do undergrad at Columbia and can’t speak to this. It may well be true that Stanford’s bland suburban campus creates a greater sense of “community” for undergrads. If this is crucial for you, then Stanford might make sense. New York can be a rough place at times. California’s bland warm and sunny 80% of the time.</p>

<p>I don’t know you, and for all you know I’m just an bot skipping across the internet, but to live in New York City as a young person, especially one who’s keen on finance, is the opportunity of a lifetime. When you’re on Wall Street, you’ll be working 90 hours a week and won’t be able to enjoy it the way you will as an undergrad with plenty of free time.</p>

<p>You’d be crazy to choose a vapid California suburb over Manhattan, imho.</p>

<p>When in comes to WALL STREET, it’s Harvard, Columbia, and Wharton. Say what you want about the overall perception.</p>

<p>Geez, you guys all need to take a chill pill. Stanford is definitely a much, much stronger for the top management consulting firms (BCG, Bain, McKinsey, LEK, Parthenon, etc.). Bain and Parthenon don’t even recruit at Columbia and the other big names take very few Columbia kids every year. As far as banking goes, it’s too tough to tell since Stanford basically owns the Menlo Park offices while Columbia grads are pretty well represented at the top bulge brackets in NYC. I would say its a wash.</p>

<p>Columbia should be a much stronger feeder than it is to these sorts of jobs considering its an Ivy in NYC. I would venture to guess the reason it isn’t is because its alumni network is much weaker due to the fact that it doesn’t offer a cohesive college experience like Stanford does.</p>

<p>I would say, unless you strongly prefer an urban lifestyle, go to Stanford. It is second to only Harvard as far as reputation internationally goes.</p>

<p>So all of the money in tech in California has nothing to do with IB, and the IB’s don’t have No. Cal offices.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>a little off aren’t you?</p>

<p>Princeton should be in the first group along with Harvard and Wharton</p>

<p>and</p>

<p>Dartmouth should move from the 3rd group to the 2nd group</p>