I think even submitting a transcript is stressful, because you have to stress every exam and homework for 4 years
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Yeah, so its weird, we have an aunt who is maybe 400 years old now??? … she grabs every new parent, niece, nephew, cousin, whatever…when they have a baby… they say READ 30 minutes everyday…
And, well, I think 99% of those in our entire family ever-ever-ever are above 1400 for those that adhered to it… yeah, there’s the exception here and there where the kid got into some bad things and the result… was in the 1%.
Or more accurately, you can skip the tests if you are not in a demographic subgroup where everyone else will be presenting good scores, and also assuming you do not need merit money anywhere, and that the AO has heard of and trusts your high school’s gpa to be an accurate indicator of ability to handle the workload. Then by all means, skip the test
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I can only speak for my son and his HS in CA (large middle class public HS with about 1/3 of students over 4.0W). I know many students who feel the UC application is not worth spending the time on the 4 PIQs. Our counselor said no matter who you are, UC s are reach. They are even quite stumped about who will get in. On the other hand, many CA students also don’t feel like taking the tests are even worth the stress, time to prep, etc. I could bet at least 25% of his class who are college bound didn’t take it at all. So when CA students apply out of state, there is higher chance they will be TO.
Not entirely true as my daughter didn’t take or submit the tests (other than reporting AP scores) and has already been offered substantial money at schools where her GPA only, along with holistic review of other elements of her application, made her interesting enough for them to want her. Technically you can say that type of money is more “tuition-discounting” than merit, and I’d agree. So yes, if you are applying for one of the few prestigious full scholarship awards at top schools like a Vanderbilt or whatever, take the test. But if you are looking for discounts at less-selective schools (which we needed to do in case she didn’t get admitted to our public in-state options and we can’t afford full pay), you can absolutely get that without test scores.
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At some places, yes. At some places, no. As you say, it depends upon where and for what you are applying. More awards are available to those with high scores. But of course you only need one award.
Just a guess, but I am betting that California private school kids are strongly counseled to test. They may not submit the results if low, but I expect almost all take it
Sort of… Many are counseled, “test once see how you do but don’t worry about it if its not excellent” we will proceed just fine without it. My son took ACT once in October of his Jr. year. He got a 29. I actually tried to convince him to take it again in hopes of supserscore in 31 range… He decided (with some advice) not to take it again… not worth it. We submitted TO to evey school except 1 ( becase it was required). He has been admitted to evey school he has applied TO
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So, as I said, most take it and lower scorers apply TO
More and more are opting not to take it at all in CA. You don’t need it for UCs and CSUs. Maybe as you say at private schools, but those kids are the ones who will end up at private colleges so perhaps they care more to have it as a potential arrow in their quiver. Public school kids tend to fare better with UC admissions, by and large.
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Agreed. I don’t think any of my S’s friends are happy about test blind. Boys in particular are at a significant disadvantage due to the increased emphasis on GPA over SAT (and the UCs can’t consider gender so don’t rebalance like many private colleges).
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Why would this be an issue for boys?
Agree, My daughter never took the SAT/ACT, and many of her classmates also skipped it. I don’t know any of her classmates who took the PSAT - that doesn’t seem very common in our district, although I’m sure there are some who seek it out. A lot of her classmates are focused primarily on UCs (and we get auto admission to one of the CSUs), and now enough privates are also TO that it often doesn’t seem worth the time, expense, and stress for CA students. (My daughter applied to a mix of UCs, CSUs, and a few privates and has done quite well with all, including merit aid at her EA private, which is a TO school.)
This is obviously just anecdotal - I would be curious to see if data back this up.
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I had to beg mine to hurry and sign up for the PSAT at our school since there were limited seats, but honestly I don’t know why I bothered. I do think that especially in CA where kids know they cutoffs are going to be insanely high anyway for NMF, why put yourself through it? She’s worked her tail off to study and prepare for all her AP exams. Those to me are a real reflection of preparation for college. The SAT and ACT? Meh. I’m not mourning them.
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At least historically, boys used to have stronger SAT scores but lower gpa than girls. May not be true as much now.
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Because girls are more mature and more focused in class from freshman year onwards, and actually do the homework. Boys are generally less interested in busy work and often don’t have the focus and maturity to get perfect GPAs (a much higher proportion have ADHD).
High stakes testing, later in your high school career, is better if you are later to mature.
Look at the percentage of girls in the top UCs, which have always been more focused on GPA, it’s already almost 60% at UCLA and that imbalance is only going to get worse.
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You don’t need it at California privates either, or at almost all schools outside of California . The list of school stills requiring one of the tests is pretty short, Unless a kid is interested in one of these schools or after a merit award linked to the tests, there is less and less reason to bother.
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That is not too far off the 58% female undergraduate enrollment at all colleges and universities in the US in 2020, according to Fast Facts: Enrollment (98) .
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Well, there are those nice NMF scholarships at many places. And the list published somewhere on this thread of how certain elite colleges treated test optional during the pandemic was illuminating. But if you want to apply to Barnard, by all means go TO. Not such a great strategy at Yale, where only 11% of their admits were TO during the height of the pandemic.
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But quite different to the rest of the T20 colleges