<p>@Smart Guy
Way to take things too seriously. I pointed out that my opinions should be taken with a grain of salt. </p>
<p>And I did say that “maybe I just visited the wrong classes.” Do you not know how to read?</p>
<p>And yes, a professor in class addressed students by the color of the shirt they were wearing and not, in fact, by name. I did not say that all professors were like this (I am sure there are some like that at every school); again, learn how to read.</p>
<p>“Are you afraid they might eat you or something!” You have a wonderful sense of humor…</p>
<p>You are way too touchy and defensive about your school. I love Columbia, and I would have been very happy there, and any student should be grateful to be given the opportunity of attending a school of such caliber.</p>
<p>No idiot would rely only “on the often biased and agenda-ridden comments,” so your comment is completely ridiculous. The OP asked a question, and I answered it by pointing out some things that I (emphasis on I) observed, but you obviously think that anybody’s opinion, besides your own, is irrelevant.</p>
<p>Another comment OP made was that Penn had a great debate team. I’ll add that Columbia and JHU also have active debate teams. You can look up their history here: </p>
<p>I’ll throw in some pro-Columbia support: A friend there absolutely adores it. Yes, he’s often out in the city, but he’s there with a core group of friends he met in the dorms. From what I can tell, he’s very pleased with his academic experience and the intellectualism of the student body. </p>
<p>I’d love to give more details, but this friend hasn’t been home for any break but Christmas, he likes it so much.</p>
<p>Here’s something I posted on another thread concerning Dartmouth vs. Columbia (I know it’s not Penn vs. JHU vs. Columbia, but maybe it’ll give some insight on how I chose)</p>
<p>"I had a similar situation this year, I had to choose between Dartmouth and Columbia for rowing. I went on my visits and here’s the good and bad of both.</p>
<p>Dartmouth:
PROS:
-Community-oriented
-Happy students (from what I saw)
-Tradition (you can feel how old the school is, and they have a million schoolwide traditions)
-Undergraduate focus (the amount of attention amazed me)
-D-Plan (study abroad)
-Greek system
-Quintessential college experience
-Spirit (90% of kids are wearing green/the carpets/walls/everything is green)
-Fireplaces in dorms (a lot of schools have this)
CONS:
-Location (for some people)
-Drinking-heavy
-Elitist</p>
<p>Columbia:
PROS:
-NYC (access to a lot of things)
-Very tiny campus (never be late to class)
-Very beautiful architecture
CONS:
-Campus is too small (my tour took 7 minutes)
-Very minimal school spirit (the only thing that reminded me that I was at Columbia were the two flags)
-Facilities are not maintained well (aka dorms are ugly)
-A very big divide between the administration and students (Red-tape bureaucracy)
-Graduate-focused
-Sports are embarrassing
-Very individualistic
-Drinking at bars (not normal college nightlife)
-Fraternities are in brownstones/are not a big deal
-Elitist
-Students did not seem happy (they always seemed rushed/cold)</p>
<p>This may look like I am biased toward Dartmouth but to be honest I was trying my hardest to balance the two schools. I think the one thing that made my college decision was that someone told me that you can always go to New York City (graduate school, internships, vacation, living) but you can’t always go live in a small college town. I’m a city person, but when I was at Columbia I knew that I couldn’t have a happy college experience there. I looked out my dorm at Columbia and saw a huge brick wall 4 feet away, and listened to the constant siren of NYC. Even though I did like the city, I knew that I wasn’t independent/individualistic enough to be happy in a city as big as NYC. When I first learned of Dartmouth a year ago, it wasn’t at the top of my list, but after I visited the school (and visited my other options) I knew that I was going to choose it. I wanted a really traditional college experience and I knew that Dartmouth was going to offer that.</p>
<p>But seriously that’s just me. It’s really about where you are happy. You made a really good point when you said that they are all at the same caliber. They are all amazing schools and all Ivy Leagues, you’ll succeed at any of the three, so what matters is what kind of experience you want while achieving that success.</p>
<p>There is a big difference between the appearance of a 17 year old and a 35 year old. However, you are correct - in this case the older looking students were probably undergraduates - part of the 25% of undergraduates who enter through the College of General Studies and take the same classes along with the undergraduates that get accepted through Columbia College and Fu Engineering.</p>
<p>Sigh. Right now, I’ve just talked to the financial aid officers at JHU and Upenn. Both can offer me nothing but Columbia made me a John Jay scholar and my parents believe i should go to Columbia just because of that. I’m not so sure though Columbia’s tuition is the most expensive at approx 59,000 dollars. Penn is 57,000 J</p>
<p>Usually, I tell myself that I’m going to Columbia because none of the other universities gave me any extra perks but sometimes I worry that I’m making the wrong decision. Are there any scholars on this board?</p>
<p>You shouldn’t feel like someone has to twist your arm to go to a school like Columbia (or any school for that matter)…Go to one of the other schools, if you feel that way. You’re starting to sound a little conceited here, as if Columbia needs to throw in some ‘perks’ to get you to matriculate. Given the overwhelming odds of getting into Columbia, I can see why that might be the case. In any, you should go to another school then. Trust me, Columbia will be okay…</p>
<p>This is nuts. Columbia is a great school, most people wd view it step or more above jhu and either equal to or a small step above UPenn. Not to mention how much better NYC is then baltimore and Philly. If you are viewing it somehow as not your first choice, don’t go! It is a dream school for many. Your parents are right for prestige reasons at least. If difficulty of binge drinking is such a big deal to you, pls don’t come.</p>
<p>Nah, all of these schools are on the same tier. Although I would put Penn-Wharton higher on the tier, Columbia and Penn-CAS in the middle of the tier, and JHU lower in the tier.</p>
<p>Al620, obviously all are great schools and how people perceive minor gradations of prestige differ (though i assume everyone wd agree Columbia and UPenn trump jhu there), I am a big law partner who does a lot of hiring, was just sharing my instinctive take, my son is heading to Columbia, which he selected over Dartmouth, among others.</p>
<p>No. No.No. No. I absolutely LOVE columbia. I love the Core, the students, the intellectual conversation and the city. The reason I’m so iffy is because I feel that I obsessed over Columbia and knew every single detail about it. When I first laid eyes on columbia, I wasn’t sure, but I’ve slowly started to believe that I could never go anywhere else than Columbia. And I worry because,I don’t know as much about JHU and UPENN. In reality, I feel like I’m not giving those schools a chance. </p>
<p>well, I’m off to visit columbia this weekend. that’s probably the only way I can make a decsion.</p>
<p>I think your decision should be made by asking older students, not freshman. Days on Campus at all schools are ridiculous. My friends and I mentioned that it was the literally the first time this entire year that the fields had been opened, and they’re closed again today and probably will be for the entire week until the prospies come on campus again. I can’t recall how many people I heard wondering why the fields were open at all and then concluding “It’s for the prospies.”</p>
<p>Columbia is for a certain type of person. You need to be quite independent and sure of your ability to socialize. I didn’t believe much of what sophomores and juniors said to me as a freshman, that you stop hanging out with people and you spend a huge portion of time in your dorm doing work or screwing around by yourself. I wondered how this could be the case, I mean we’re literally 2-3 blocks away from everyone. The lack of space on campus and the lack of any student center really kills the social scene, there’s no central hangout spot, no central place to eat lunch, and the bustle of the city and the graduate students and local residents really kills the undergraduate experience. Definitely not a traditional college experience or a community oriented one at that.</p>
<p>My friends had HS friends who went to Penn. For some reason, the school is able to instill loyalty; most of the people I know at Columbia either put up with it or hate it. It’s the fact that Penn has a campus life and the administration does fun things like a spring week. Columbia puts on 2-3 campus events all year and standing in line takes up half the time. Make the decision on where you’ll be happy, because the career prospects and educational quality are good at all schools (engineering is terrible at Columbia but you’re a JJ scholar so you’re in CC).</p>
<p>nil, this is a great idea. check out the campus, ask the students questions, get to know what it is all about</p>
<p>but do yourself a favor</p>
<p>at about a reasonable time at night, not too late - say 9:00pm, walk on campus over to the Mudd Building, it faces 120th street and is at Amsterdam on the north east part of campus. </p>
<p>From there walk only a couple of blocks north on Amsterdam, to about 125th street and make a left. Walk only a couple of blocks. Talk a look around. Take your time - observe observe observe. Take in what you see. Then, walk back through the same route.</p>
<p>and tell us, did you enjoy the walk?</p>
<p>is this the neighborhood that you want to go to college in?</p>
<p>if you would be kind enough to post your reactions of this brief, but lovely, 30 minute walk, we would all appreciate it.</p>
<p>^^^^^^geesh, forgot to mention. Since the Columbia supporters continue to claim that the area that Columbia is located at is among the safest in New York, then you can make this trip by yourself. HOWEVER, if you do not feel comfortable while standing at the corner of Amsterdam and 120th on the Columbia campus at the beginning of your 30 minute walk, then please please please go back and get about 1/2 dozen of your Columbia buddies to make the trip with you.</p>
This could be said of any school. I know someone who hated her experience at an ivy in the middle of nowhere. She found the environment very isolating and she had trouble relating to the overall vibe of the community. She didn’t get into Columbia and remarks how she would have preferred its vibe. </p>
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<p>I think this is maybe just you or some of your friends–if I remember correctly, you are in Fu, and Fu students tend to have a rep for being hard-core. ;-)</p>
<p>Also, is Lerner Hall not a student center? People don’t congregate on the steps as a central hangout? And again, how might the fact that there are graduate students and local residents “kill” the undergraduate experience. Are they terrorizing the little undergrads and forcing them to stay in their dorm rooms–as if all the college kids are forced to look on the quad from their dorm windows and witness big bad grad students destroy the place and wreck havoc on the lawn…c’mon… Considering that the other schools the OP is considering are also major research universities, I don’t think there would be much of a difference. I liked the fact that there were grad students and schools. I took classes in various graduate divisions, including SIPA, Architecture, Teachers College, etc. Guess what? The graduate students didn’t bully me, either…</p>
<p>I think you would have been a perfect candidate to transfer out…</p>
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<p>You describe this route in such vivid detail–perhaps you have conducted this tranquil walk on numerous occasions while searching for less than honorable purposes? Do tell…</p>
<p>you should probably ask both freshman and upperclassmen. I, for example, disliked Columbia my freshman year and loved it later on. </p>
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<p>the lawns are open so much after the admitted students visit and in the fall. Even when they were “closed” I would just jump the gate with a few friends and play something for a good 20-30 minutes before we’d be asked to leave. I liked the lawns a lot and didn’t feel that I didn’t get enough of them.</p>
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<p>I would only sleep in my dorm. I spent the rest of the day outside, and not in the library. I would study with friends in other dorms, go to speaker events, get lunch with a friend etc etc. I knew quite a few other people who were like this - i.e. the precise opposite of your description. There were kids who spent their whole lives in their rooms, not a unique Columbia trait.</p>
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<p>yet I had a wonderful time, and a solidly traditional college experience. I went to sports games, to campus bars, to suite parties, to random get-togethers on campus at night. I would run into friends all the time on campus, people visiting thought I was much more popular than I actually was. But that was the advantage of the compact campus, everything was close by, you constantly run into people. I actually found a solid community, still go up to campus and hang out with friends, and my best friends in the city, who I spend every weekend, with are my college friends. It’s not an LAC type community where you know everyone and everyone knows, you but if you are outgoing enough you will always be bumping into friends on campus.</p>
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<p>and I found the opposite in people I knew. Most people were quietly positive, many were proud and would tell you so, and some were not happy.</p>
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<p>no you need to be independent and develop your ability to socialize. Some people come in quite social as it is. You are not hurt if you aren’t the loudest, most joyful person around.</p>
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<p>I generally agree with this, you’ll get the best sense of different campuses by comparing your visits.</p>
<p>I am also a loyal Columbia alum (interview kids, go back to sports games etc.) so it did engender some loyalty in someone who really didn’t like it at first. Columbia was not my top choice as a high schooler, but it suited me well.</p>
<p>We know many recent Columbia alums, as well as several profs. All the recent graduates I know loved their Columbia experience (some complain about administration/bureaucracy, but had amazing academics and other opportunities). The bashing on this thread is just bizarre. Columbia is not for everyone, for sure, and neither is any other school. It has amazing reputation and name value, certainly in New York and New England, not that this should be a determinative factor, but it is an indisputable fact. In fact I was just interviewing a recent Columbia grad who was very impressive and raved about her experience there (appreciate that folks don’t complain at interviews, but she went on and on). My son is likely choosing Columbia, he has visited three times, sat in on a class and talked to several profs (we also personally know two Columbia profs and a former Columbia prof) and is more impressed with Columbia than any other school he has visited. Agree that if you are intimidated by New York City or urban environment, it is for sure not a place for you! Same if you are looking for hard core frat/party/binge drinking experience. Good luck to all, there is lots to consider in choosing between these great schools, but the Columbia bashing is just pathetic.</p>