Columbia vs CMU, Mechanical Engineering

Colleges and Universities A-Z Columbia University
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<p>Hey guys. I need some help deciding whether to go to Carnegie Mellon or Columbia for mechanical engineering. Carnegie seems to have a lot going for it - it's high on the rankings, has a reputable engineering department, and is well-known for its robotics course (granted, that's not under-grad).</p>

<p>But then there's Columbia, the Ivy. I don't know if I'm just hanging on that label here, because it's sub-20 on the engineering rankings, but I feel very reluctant to let it go. My brother's a Columbia graduate, so I feel a weird sense of familiarity with the place. Is it too unreasonable be comparing the two? How does Columbia's engineering department compare to CMU's, non-ranking-wise?</p>

<p>Location's a matter, as well. I've been to New York and I know it's a great place, but my brother keeps telling me that Pittsburgh isn't the best place to be (then again, he's not a stranger to talking nonsense).</p>

<p>I suppose you should also know that I'm pretty sure I'm gonna do a post-grad after my four years, rather then try get a job.</p>

<p>Any help and input would be hugely appreciated. Thanks!</p>

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<p>CMU is a great engineering school.
The study of engineering is important, no doubt. But if you care about some other things as well, IIRC CMU is over 60% male, and (Barnard + Columbia) is about that same % female. </p>

<p>For what that’'s worth.</p>

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<p>Rohan - tough choice.</p>

<p>1) Columbia does fine with the pure engineering sciences, but the reason it is often ranked lower than perhaps its selectivity would suggest is that it is not a traditional engineering school. It is different and known for training students with diverse intentions - kids get graduate degrees (I know someone who got a BS/MS in 4 years), go work at engineering firms, go work on wall street, go into professional school including law school. I think this is great cause engineers and solid math/sci background is critical for the world today, but it does mean that rankings wont love us in a traditional engineering sense, note that the ranking of US News is SOLELY based on perception by Deans and Presidents of Universities, many who may not be engineers. It is like asking someone to compare bread between countries - I like my bread, but I don’t know what the bread tastes like in France because I never tasted it, so I am going to mark it lower. It is a poor ranking schema. In the end, I think you can compare in the sense that you will have a very rigorous educational experience at either with an ABET certified major and you can go into the field of your choice. Even if comparatively you think the rankings to be important, I think that the work Columbia has been doing with entrepreneurship and just raising the name of the school shows that it should be over the next few years finally gaining some attention for their efforts.</p>

<p>2) In the end it will be rigorous wherever you go, but I can see CMU being a pull for the post-grad thing. Regardless of how I want to slice Columbia, if you want post-grad then going to a very myopic and specific engineering college is not a bad idea. I don’t think it is a better education, but I would be curious if CMU students have higher placement in grad school - it just could be.</p>

<p>3) The last thing though and why I think Columbia could/should come out ahead is that you should htink about the community/environment you are going to school in. My cousin went to CMU and he got used to it, but he never quite loved the city or the school. Students were competitive and he wished for a community. (Wow, Columbia winning a community battle, who wudathunk.) I tend to agree with that and as you mention, location matters then I think you should go to the place where you will grow the most and gain the most perspective. I think Columbia is an awesome option here, and other SEASers can pass along their thoughts as well.</p>

<p>A last thought, if post-grad is really a concern of yours. Talk to some senior MechE kids first, and talk to professors if you get a chance about it. I say this because they are the best resources with specifics about how Columbians match up in the graduate school process. Hopefully (I think) they will put your mind at ease and you will be joining Columbia next fall.</p>

4

<p>Excellent choices–CMU and SEAS. I would say go to Carnegie Tech if you’ve gotten into (or will likely get into) an Honors Program at the school. This means you will work on a funded research-level project under the supervision of a professor. There is grant money at CIT “hanging around” looking for proposals from bright undergrads who take the initiative. For engineering, CIT is funded about 3 times the level of SEAS. In areas like Computer Science and Robotics, CIT is at the top of its game. As a result, CIT’s Honors Program is more structured and better funded than Columbia’s.</p>

<p>At Columbia, there are research opportunities, but they are less formal in nature–basically, you have to seek them out by going to each department or professor and checking out what they have to offer. It’s best departments are probably in CS, Applied Math, Civil Eng and Chem Eng. But Columbia’s strength is its balance between science/engineering and humanities. You’ll get a solid dose of the Core Curriculum, which means you’ll actually have to challenge yourself in subject areas outside of your comfort zone (at least for most engineers I know).</p>

<p>You’ve got a great choice here. Be sure to visit each school before deciding, if time and resources allow! Good luck to you!</p>

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<p>Two children in Columbia Engineering (Fu Foundation)…mechanical and civil. First went to great grad school (Ga. Tech.) and got paid pretty good to do it. She’s now working for a large, world wide engineering consulting firm. Second, still there and loving it. Its hard, and they don’t give A’s away. No Ivy grade inflation in the engineering school. Columbia graduate on a resume gets you virtually any thing you want. Columbia alumni stick together and are very helpful. And then there’s the benefit to living in New York…and the great internships. My daughter got well paying summer internships with the NY Bridge Authority and the Harbor Port Authority.</p>

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<p>I actually chose Columbia over CMU for Mech E (which is what I originally wanted to study). Columbia engineering takes in more qualified kids than CMU engineering, so it can’t be worse. In terms of traditional mechanical engineering they’re both good, but neither is an MIT. CMU for CS is another issue altogether. CMU is ranked higher for engineering but no-one knows or gives a ■■■ about usnews engineering rankings. Purdue is ranked higher than Harvard, do you think Harvard kids aren’t good enough for any job, or less qualifed than purdue kids? Do you think top employers would care about your school once they hire you, they’ll do what’s in their self interest and take the best? The problem is: a big, good firm that isn’t cutting edge will just want to take many people who meet a threshold of being an engineer and for these places all those highly ranked engineering schools make the cut. </p>

<p>Even top employers are not going to say “he went to Columbia, he’s probably not good enough” they’ll likely say quite the opposite. Columbia seas is just brutal, with it’s competition, it takes in some of smartest kids of anywhere and pushes them to work hard with difficult work and harsh curves. You are really going to be challenged. Three years ago the SAT score range of SEAS was nearly the same as that of MIT, the acceptance rate at SEAS has since gone from 23–>14.4%. You do the math. Knowing this, Columbia should be a clear choice unless there is some really special draw to CMU that Columbia cannot replicate.</p>

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<p>Agreed, there is no grade inflation at SEAS. This is a brutal fact, but it makes for better graduates.</p>

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<p>"do you think Harvard kids aren’t good enough for any job, or less qualifed than purdue kids? "</p>

<p>I think some of them may be less qualified for certain jobs, if they did not have comparable training in a particular sub-area in which their small program may not have offered courses. For example, I highly doubt Harvard offers courses in the particular engineering sub-area I worked in for a while, and people without training in this sub-area were not hired by my department so far as I recall.</p>

<p>“Even top employers are not going to say “he went to Columbia, he’s probably not good enough” they’ll likely say quite the opposite.”</p>

<p>I think the question to be asking is whether the engineering firm employers will be showing up at columbia to interview in the first place, in equal numbers. It seems possible to me that, where only 1/3 of grads of a small program actually become engineers, some engineering firm employers may take a pass at making the visit. Might check into actual levels of on-campus recruitment, by engineering employers for engineering jobs. Not a concern about brains, just a numbers thing. There may be some big engineering employers who’ve never seen an actual engineer from Columbia.</p>

<p>“… if you’ve gotten into (or will likely get into) an Honors Program at the school. This means you will work on a funded research-level project under the supervision of a professor. There is grant money at CIT “hanging around” looking for proposals from bright undergrads who take the initiative. For engineering, CIT is funded about 3 times the level of SEAS. In areas like Computer Science and Robotics, CIT is at the top of its game. As a result, CIT’s Honors Program is more structured and better funded than Columbia’s.”</p>

<p>I guess this does seem significant, if you intend to pursue a research path.</p>

<p>“Columbia engineering takes in more qualified kids than CMU engineering, so it can’t be worse.”</p>

<p>Yes it certainly can be, if it offers an inferior depth and breadth of courses in areas of interest to a particular individual, or inferior research opportunities for them. Or is less heavily recruited on-campus for engineering jobs by engineering firm employers. Maybe this particular group of “more qualified kids” has, on the whole, somewhat different objectives than you have. </p>

<p>“My daughter got well paying summer internships with the NY Bridge Authority and the Harbor Port Authority.”</p>

<p>Internships are nothing to sneeze at, in the old days Westinghouse was in Pittsburgh and I bet CMU grads had plenty of internship opportunities there; don’t know about now. But NYC is not really an engineering hotbed, or it didn’t used to be anyway.</p>

<p>Not meaning to knock Columbia, just that some of what was posted did not necessarily make the most compelling argument for it.</p>

<p>I agree the rankings are not highly relevant, but if they happened to correlate with depth and breadth of course offerings in the field, and recruitment for engineering jobs on campus, these factors might be more relevant for a particular individual than the IQs of some of his classmates. His/her IQ will be the same, regardless of which school he attends. It’s not like the other place is a bunch of bumbling idiots, in any event. </p>

<p>But i’m not sure the rankings even do that.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all of your inputs. For the record, I’ve decided that I’m going to Columbia.</p>

<p>Being at an Ivy can’t hurt your education no matter what course you take (er, almost), so I really didn’t have too much to lose with this decision. Carnegie has its very obvious pros, but I suppose it’s the more rounded approach of Columbia that I’m really looking for - something I didn’t realise until a lot of in-depth course research was done. </p>

<p>The all-important research opportunities do exist in Columbia; even if they may be harder to find, I can still get them. If it takes a little more effort from my end, so be it. Columbia’s also been keeping a lot more in contact with me than Carnegie has, and it helps that they generally give me a great feeling about the place.</p>

<p>I guess the final factor is one that I should’ve mentioned earlier - I got a likely letter from Columbia, so surely they’re seeing me as a really good fit for the Fu Foundation in some way. I <em>feel</em> like I’d be a good fit.</p>

<p>But again, thanks for all of your help. I had a lot on my mind, and you guys really helped me sort it all out. Maybe I’ll see some of you in New York! <3</p>

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<p>For what it’s worth: I spent 2 summers at CMU and was accepted to go there. I chose Columbia. </p>

<p>If nothing else, I thought CMU’s campus was the ugliest thing I’ve ever seen (MIT comes in a close second tho). The dorms were dingy, the area wasn’t the nicest, and it’s Pittsburgh. I still have friends who are happy there but I know I made the right decision especially on nice spring days like today. :)</p>

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<p>I was in the exact situation (same major too) and chose Columbia, for what that’s worth.</p>