Columbia vs. MIT vs. Princeton among others

College Search & Selection
1

<p>I'm a senior currently quite stressed as to which college is, if there is such a thing, the perfect college for me. As I've only been accepted to MIT and UChicago early action, this might be considered counting my chicks before they hatch =P ...but I'd really like some input because there are several schools I am debating between (and hopefully I get in :]) and it'd be nice to not have to rush decisions in the short time between April and May 1.</p>

<p>My heart has been set on Columbia for a while especially after spending a month there last summer learning computer graphics. I really loved the gorgeous campus, the living experience in Hartley (2-story suite kind of thing w/ 13 others), and of course NYC. The Core is definitely another plus that makes me want to go there. My doubts about Columbia revolve mostly around the lack of school spirit (something I could deal with, but is there really that little sense of community?).</p>

<p>MIT seems pretty awesome as well from what I have heard about it. My only doubts are that the campus was kinda more on the ugly side (from driving through it multiple times), the academics seem to be equated to a firehouse in a water balloon (read that on CC), and I'm afraid that it's too focused on math and science. Since I am really undecided as to what I'm going to do in the future, I am worried this may limit my choices - while I do excel in math/sci, I also really love the humanities, esp writing. </p>

<p>Princeton is the other main school I would love to go to, assuming I got accepted. Although I don't know too much about it, I love how it is only an hour away from NYC and Philadelphia, the gorgeous GORGEOUS campus, the emphasis on undergrad education, and the financial aid (how there are no loans, only grant...although this sounds too good to be true). My doubts about Princeton are mainly just the type of people who go there - I've heard it's a lot more preppy than, say, Columbia - stereotype or truth? And also the eating clubs, I am not sure whether they would be a plus or not. </p>

<p>On another note, my dad, a rather forceful/stubborn type if you know what I mean, is really pushing for MIT or Harvard mainly because those are his dream schools, not exactly mine, and because of their prestige, something that is not as important to me. I would love any advice on how to deal with this, because I am a bit worried come April how to convince my dad to let me go wherever I truly want to go. I also applied to Stanford, if anyone has anything to say about that. (I really want to go Northeast though)</p>

<p>Any comparisons between these schools would be great....actually, any input would be really appreciated!! Thanks :]</p>

2

<p>General perceptions...</p>

<p>Princeton - preppy, most undergraduate focused Ivy, rather small compared</p>

<p>Columbia - crazy liberal NYCers, most renown "core", liberal arts amazing</p>

<p>MIT - freezing nerds on a weird lookin' campus</p>

3

<p>
[quote]
my dad, a rather forceful/stubborn type if you know what I mean, is really pushing for MIT or Harvard

[/quote]
</p>

<p>haha. For me it was exactly the opposite :) But first some background: my decision last year was ultimately between Columbia and MIT. For the entire application season the two schools took turns as my top choice college. I was also early action into MIT, and canceled my application for Chicago (among a few others) after the news in december. So I think we're looking at quite a similar pool of schools between the two of us.</p>

<p>Now, my dad was opposite. He fawned over liberal arts colleges and just fell in love with Columbia. He quite resented the idea of me going to a big research university like MIT and worried about the rigor of the school. Now he proudly sports an MIT bumper sticker on his car. Basically my point is that though parents may have their preferences, they want the best for you and in the end will support whatever decision you make. So make it yours.</p>

<p>Ok, now onto your questions. I won't be able to say much about Princeton since the atmosphere just completely turned me off when I visited so I struck that school off my list immediately. It has a beautiful campus, sure, but (maybe it's just me but) I can't imagine why that should factor so heavily into your decision. It's nice to visit pristinely beautiful locations, picnic there, spend a day, a week, even, for a change of scenery, but you're not in university as a tourist but as a student- more importantly, as a resident. Maybe instead of looking for what is beautiful (and sterile), look for what is most comfortable- I think in the end, the latter method would result in a better college experience. That said, to the general audience, the MIT campus is not beautiful, but to the students, it is livable. We're completely comfortable here, we explore, we climb, we decorate, we drill holes, and receive not even slaps on the wrist (which is really not something that would happen at any other college). Oh, and driving by campuses don't ever give a positive impression of it. Stop the car some times, grab a student tour guide, and come see our school from a student's (not motorist's) perspective. You might be pleasantly surprised.</p>

<p>If you're looking for the varsity-sports-hoopla sort of team spirit, you're not going to find it at any of those colleges. Columbia students love their school and would defend it to the bone, but, really, very few top colleges have sports teams worth a damn. If you're worried about the dispersion of students into NYC over the weekends instead of on-campus entertainment, it's a much bigger deal thinking about it than it is living it. You have New York City there, for god's sake, so the students will sure as hell take advantage of it. And they should. And they do. And so would you.</p>

<p>Academics ended up being one of my most decisive factors. I'd been squeezed through 12 years of poor public schooling (if schooling at all) and wanted to push my limits for once. From speaking with professors and students Columbia just didn't offer the intensity I was looking for. The students were much more concerned with the nightlife (bars, clubs, hang-outs) than the academics. As in, whereas at MIT homework is brought out in huge groups often with talking, laughter, and food in the middle, at Columbia, it's generally done alone and in a hurry as to meet up with friends in the city later. Neither is worse than the other, it's just two different modes of thinking. We go out on the weekends as well, but we also consider academics the biggest component of our lives as students.</p>

<p>In order to be happy at MIT, you must (must) like and do well in science/math. That's non-negotiable. If the idea of multivariable calculus is making you lightheaded and inducing a vomit-taste in your mouth, then really, do yourself a favor and DON'T come here. That said, it most definitely doesn't (shouldn't) be your ONLY interest. I personally love writing (poetry and prose) and photography and wouldn't give up either of those for the world. So here I am taking a poetry class and on the staff of the MIT literary/art magazine. I have friends here intending to major in philosophy, music, writing... and others with intense interests in musical theater- they're here because they loved the environment and they're also interested in science. I mean c'mon, MIT is one of the most well-endowed schools in the world. Just because they're tremendous in science does not limit them in the humanities/arts. I have very diverse interests and have never found myself out of options or offerings from music to meteorology :P</p>

<p>This is long enough. Feel free to PM.</p>

4

<p>Well, seeing as the previous poster talked mostly about Columbia and MIT, I guess I can tell you why I liked Princeton so much that I applied ED. Beautiful campus, amazing physics program. If you're a science person, I think Princeton and MIT have better science than Columbia. Everyone knows about MIT of course, but Princeton is also ranked right up there with MIT/Harvard/Caltech for its undergrad physics program. Undergrad focus and research opportunity are amazing...in the physics dept., the faculty outnumber the undergrads concentrating in physics. The eating clubs do play a large role in the social scene, but half of the clubs are non-exclusive (you just sign up on a list) and there are other options such as co-op or cook yourself or whatever. My perception is that Princeton and Columbia are somewhat more socially inclined than MIT.
All three are so great academically that you really can't go wrong. I would advise Princeton or MIT if you want to go into physics or something like that, but Columbia is still strong in science. The thing that really distinguishes the schools is social life. If you want to work reeeally hard and hang out with math nerds (not that there's anything wrong with that, seeing as I am somewhat of a math nerd myself) perhaps you should choose MIT. If you want a more traditional college experience (parties, a more balanced student body in terms of academic interests) consider Princeton.
Also, Princeton is much less snooty than people make it out to be. Sure, there are rich kids, just as there are at Harvard and Yale, but their financial aid is perhaps the best in the country, and about 50% of the class is on some kind of financial aid.</p>

5

<p>Congrats on your acceptances so far! My advice is to see where else you get in, then go visit overnight and talk to as many students as you can.</p>

<p>My son's a sophomore at Columbia, mathematically/scientifically inclined but really drawn to the core curriculum. He looked at both Princeton and MIT but didn't apply to either (MIT too techie for him at that point, since he was really clueless about his ultimate major; at Princeton, the eating club scene and the suburban location turned him off.) He also got in to some of the other schools on your list, revisited most of them, and ultimately chose Columbia. He loves it. It is not rah-rah in the sense of cheering on the sports teams, but that does not mean it lacks community. Perhaps, because it does not have a residential college system, the way to think of it is that it's made up of a variety of communities -- on any given night there is a ton to choose from both on and off campus, and so people are not all headed to the same event. He made a lot of friends in his first year dorn, is involved in various activities, enjoys the city, takes challenging classes, works hard. I'd guess my adjective for Columbia would be "intense". Columbia students seem to load themselves up with both courses and activities, at the expense of sleep. They don't seem to do much just hanging out.</p>

<p>I think the description of the difference between how studying is done at MIT vs Columbia rings true. (But my kid's not in engineering, so they may do more group work.) The math and physics departments have good faculty/student ratios and there are certainly research opportunities. There are some super bright students in math and physics, but you would find a larger congregation of those kids at either MIT or Princeton, where they would not have to deal with a humanities/heavy core curriculum. As to your father weighing in on prestige, our kid turned down a couple of places that rank higher in USNWR. Once you're talking about schools at this level, it really doesn't matter who is fourth this year, who is second, who is ninth. Our approach was to encourage him to choose the place where he thought he would make the most of his opportunities. I can tell you I have no doubt at all he is getting a great education. </p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

6

<p>I transferred out of Columbia because of the lack of community. Community isn't about sports - its about a connection with the campus and the students all feeling a part of something common together. Sure Carmen is fun and John Jay dining hall is all first-years, but after that you are sort of stuck around campus in random dorms and the bars become your social scene. Columbia students also don't seem to be out to help everyone, its a much more cliquey scene. Columbia is strict about parties in the dorms and since it students don't have houses, you miss out on the laid back house parties that are prevelant at almost every school. Its also a big university, so its not like you know everyone. The library is quiet and filled with grad students. </p>

<p>I visited Princeton for a weekend and felt like it was night and day. I could not believe the whole campus was out on the weekends, running aound between dorms, eating clubs, etc. P-ton didn't accept transfers and I transferred to Dartmouth. I and can honestly say the biggest and best most community oriented Columbia weekend I had (Bacchanal) was worse than probably the most tame weekend at Dartmouth. Dartmouth had 4 MAJOR weekends, Columbia barely had one. Afterwards Dartmouth alums run to reunion events, at Columbia they don't. </p>

<p>Then again this might not matter to many columbia students who like being around grad students and are very willing to trade frat houses for going out downtown. Columbia is great for an independent student who wants NYC culture and is a little intense. As the previous poster mentioned, its a little intense and there isn't much "hanging out." I love hanging out, and as a happy-go lucky, playful type of person, I found the community at Dartmouth to be much more enticing as an undergrad.</p>

7

<p>Come to Princeton baby :p</p>

8

<p>Yay replies! (haha I've never posted before, & I am easily excited...quiet =P) Yeah, I agree pebbles..driving through a campus isn't exactly the best way to get a feel for it =P My dad and I got lost driving around Boston, that kinda bothered me as well...lol jp. I can't attend CPW at MIT because of an orchestra trip, so I hope I'm not missing out too much. I really like the working together idea at MIT.. oh and I was thinking more along the lines of - why if I want to major in something in liberal artsy? Would I get a better education at Columbia (or not at MIT)? That was one of the questions I asked my MIT interviewer and he said that the liberal arts at MIT are good if you want exposure, etc. but not exactly optimal if you want to major. Any thoughts on that? I think I'm getting kind of nit-picky because these are all excellent schools..</p>

<p>friendofdarwin, what is the workload at princeton like? I'm both interested and a bit intimidated at the same time about the senior thesis...what are your thoughts on it? thanks!</p>

<p>thank you sac for the congrats :] Your mentioning of USNWR made me laugh because that is basically my dad's method of determining which schools are better (to my annoyance..sigh).</p>

<p>What is something unique about each school that you think none of the others have?</p>

9

<p>aw man. i like hanging out too, slipper1234...all these negatives about Columbia! ahh! T_T</p>

<p>haha do you have any specific reasons Kjoodles?</p>

10

<p>slipper -- My kid only wanted urban schools, so never looked at Dartmouth. However, he is active in a frat at Columbia. He went to a small high school and wanted a larger university -- not because he wanted to hang out with grad students, but because high school began to feel kind of claustrophobic and he liked the idea of a more diverse campus culture. So, different strokes for different folks. </p>

<p>sushigirl: I didn't mean to suggest people never hang out, just that they tend to get together and head out into the city whereas, elsewhere, they might hang out more often in the dorms. Columbia is unique because of its core curriculum and its NYC location. MIT has some great humanities departments. The difference is that everyone at Columbia College is reading the same stuff at the same time, and discussing it in classes capped at 22 students. There are people who choose Columbia in spite of the core, which I believe is a mistake. But if you really like the idea of a core (as my kid did) it's a unique attraction. As for the city, you've been there so you know its attractions. My kid bartends for the student agency at private parties (once at NY City Hall), has played gigs at various locations (arranged by students he's been in various bands with), goes to concerts, clubs, and plays as well as dances, loves the restaurants, has discovered shopping, complains that other cities don't stay open late enough for him, and is interviewing for summer jobs in the city. Those are all opportunities that would not necessarily have been there for him at other schools on his list, though each college would have presented its own, somewhat different, opportunities. As for USNWR: My point of view is that you should choose the place that fits you and your interests.</p>

<p>Beyond curriculum and location, each college attracts/selects a somewhat different student body. That's why, when you get your final list of acceptances, I think you should go back and visit each you are seriously considering. My son's decision came down to the wire, but he is happy with the choice he made.</p>

11

<p>I've heard the workload is around the level of Stanford...it's not that hard to get Bs, but it's somewhat challenging to get As. My impression though was that MIT was really, really hard. Kids at Princeton are really academic, but they still find a lot of time to have fun on the weekends, so the workload can't be that bad...about what you'd find at other top ivies I guess. As far as the senior thesis goes, I've heard it really depends. Some people just trudge through it and some people do brilliant research work, and everywhere in between. Seeing as you're smart enough to have gotten into MIT and Chicago, I doubt it'll present that much of an obstacle to you. It may make a couple of weeks of your life a bit hellish, but in the end it's a great opportunity to do some research and get to know a professor. You also prepare for your thesis during your junior year with two junior papers, which are shorter, less developed "practice theses," so it's not like a huge paper requirement is suddenly forced upon you.</p>

12

<p>Though I do know kids who are here ONLY to major in humanities and/or arts, I know many more double majoring in a science subject and a humanities subject. Don't come here if you have NO interest in science, because though we have an extremely diverse student body (yes, even in terms of academic interests), one basic uniting factor (at least among those happiest here) is an appreciation for science/math. And music also seems to be rather pervasive here. I really don't know very many kids here at all who are not involved in SOME way in music (voice, instruments...). </p>

<p>Now for humanities majors, there are some extremely strong ones. For these departments, MIT is among the tip top schools in the country. I probably won't be able to hit them all but if your possible humanities major falls into one of these you have no reasons for concern... Philosophy (top 5ish in the country), Economics (similar), Management - Sloan school (like 1 or 2), I hear Political Science is strong, some of the languages, Architecture is definitely up there too, Linguistics (++)... shoot it's 6am and I'm tired, I hope sakky can jump in and fill in the rest :)</p>

13

<p>Work hard, play hard.</p>

<p>Why Princeton babe? Undergrad focus, cool people, social, strong community, the SEXY campus and because I'm going :p</p>

14

<p>Maybe my S is an exception, but contrary to what slipper says, he does just "hang out" with friends often at Columbia. As a frosh last year, he made a bunch of friends on his floor which are pretty much the core of his social life now. He does go out on the town fairly often, but with other Columbia students. He also plays regularly with the unofficial "Columbia University Poker Association," basically another group of good friends. Other times, he hangs out in gf's suite, they cook dinner with a bunch of friends, watch movies, etc. Like any school. Socially, I definitely don't see the isolation slipper is talking about--I think that someone who transfers away is not going to be the best source of info, though a different perspective is always useful.</p>

<p>Academics are pretty much as sac describes, very intense, and communal in the sense of everyone taking the Core together. If you're reading the Iliad or Locke, so are hundreds of other students, though all in very small classes. It's a neat expereince. Also, like sac says, Columbia students seem to need to take more classes than necessary and really push themselves. Just seems to be part of the culture.</p>

<p>I don't have experience with the other schools you're looking at. It looks like you will have some great choices. Best of luck to you!</p>

15

<p>I am not knocking Columbia, I just have spent a lot of time at other schools so I am comparing it more than anything. I keep in touch with many friends (most from my carman floor). Sure columbia has a social aspect, but its a cliquey one. I doubt your son knows even 1/4 of his class. Columbia students tend to self-segregate and go off: some to bars, some downtown, some to movies, etc. For those wanting a true "college experience" Columbia isn't it. Poker nights and movie nights are great, but they are far from what happens at Princeton where 1/2 of the student body might be hanging out on campus on a given weekend night. Its an amazing place, but more geared for an intenser more independent student.</p>

16

<p>I think that it's not a matter of being more social or less social, but rather small group rather than big event. Hey, I went to UMich, and aside from a couple football games (sold most of my tickets for food money), I mainly just hung out with friends. Wasn't into the big party thing there. That's just one kind of social life.</p>

<p>(And I don't know too many young people less "intense" than my S, LOL).</p>

17

<p>no contest, it is Penn.</p>

<p>MIT is nerdy and boring.
Columbia is prision in Harlem
Pton is Wasp club house.</p>