Was hoping to get a little advice on which choice to make. I’ve been fortunate enough to be accepted at some wonderful schools and am having a hard time deciding. Currently I’ve managed to narrow it down to Columbia and Stanford.
I’m interested in political science and economics but would also love to take classes in lots of other subjects (philosophy, anthropology, linguistics etc). I love languages and am hoping to maybe take some advanced classes in the languages I have already studied and start mandarin from scratch (maybe a year abroad?). I’m into creative writing and competitive debate and would love to join political unions and groups as well.
I know that a university choice is entirely subjective and based on each individual and that I perhaps don’t provide very much info about myself, but I was just looking to hear a few thoughts.
If you have any insight on either Columbia or Stanford (about any aspect at all) then I’d love to hear it. I’d also love to hear any info on UChicago, Duke, Rice, Penn which are some other choices I haven’t entirely ruled out.
Congrats on your acceptances! Columbia and Stanford have very different vibes so definitely visit them (as well as any other options) to get a feel for the schools. Stanford tends to be more laid back, less traditional, more entrepreneurship oriented, etc.
Stanford has pretty minimalistic general education requirements compared to most other schools so you’ll likely easily be able to take classes outside your major. You can take almost any course outside your major and most courses don’t fill up right away (courses like Social Dance and Viticulture are two of the exceptions which fill up quick).
I’ve taken quite a few creative writing courses here and they have all been incredible. The creative writing minor is quite popular and very feasible to do with any major. The department is fantastic as well and regularly puts on events and readings. The atmosphere in the program is great - it’s very friendly, helpful and non-judgmental. The classes are capped at around 15 people so the environment is more seminar/discussion based than lecture based in general. All my instructors have had office hours outside where they will meet and talk about any work you’d like to discuss. If you’re really into creative writing you can also apply for a one-on-one course with a Stegner fellow (really amazing opportunity). You can even take intro English courses with writers like Tobias Wolff.
My experience with language courses here has also been great - again classes are capped at around 15 people and the emphasis is much more on communication than route memorization like in high school. Courses move fast which is great - in a few quarters of a language here you will have already surpassed AP level. Study abroad programs are also generally exceptional and have opportunities to take academic courses in a foreign language. You can start a new language from scratch here, test out of the requirement, or test into an advanced class.
Our debate team is quite good and those I know on the team are great people. If you visit for admit weekend and reach out to members on the team I’m sure they’d be happy to provide you with more info. There are also active democrat and republican groups on campus. I’ve been surprised at how civil they are with each other and how they can host joint events with mature and rational discussions on issues. Again, if you contact the leaders of the groups directly I’m sure they could give you more info.
Academically both schools are great and the differences in rankings are negligible. Stanford tends to rank a bit higher in the areas you’re interested in studying. Just to put them out there, from US Newsweek the grad programs:
English: Stanford 2, Columbia 4
Political Science: Stanford 2, Columbia 7
Economics: Stanford 5, Columbia 9
I’m of course a bit biased as a Stanford student, but I love the collaborative nature, laid back environment, nice weather, and engagement in student organizations (life outside of just academics).
My oldest son is a grad student at Stanford. Another kid is about to enter one of the other schools you listed. I graduated from UChicago. All the colleges you mention are highly regarded, of course. It would be reasonable to choose based on net price and personal “fit”. But … there may be a few specific pros and cons worth considering.
My S1’s opinion is that Stanford’s undergraduate classes typically are not as good as what he experienced at a LAC. He suggests many classes are too big and the instruction quality isn’t as good. YMMV. UChicago may be better in that respect (it has smaller average class sizes than nearly any other research university, as well as a cadre of faculty appointed to “The College”). But then, the SF Bay area is a much more pleasant place to live/study than the south side of Chicago.
The big attraction of Columbia over other peer colleges, to me, is Manhattan. However, the best time to enjoy Manhattan might be when you’re a little older and have more money to burn.
I think it is unrealistic to expect to learn Chinese well (from scratch), study other unrelated languages (plural) at an advanced level, study abroad, then complete a major in philosophy, anthropology, or some other field not directly related to one of the languages. There simply aren’t enough hours in the day. If you wanted to major in linguistics and study several languages just to the point of understanding their sound systems and grammar, that would be doable. It might be more doable at Stanford than at a college that has strong Core requirements . The Core structure is a great way to deliver a balanced, interdisciplinary liberal arts education . However, if you want a lot of freedom to explore within a field such as Asian studies or linguistics, you may feel the Core requirements (at UChicago or Columbia) get in the way.
Stanford would be an excellent choice for your interests (as long as you wouldn’t be paying a big price premium over one of your other good alternatives.)
Thank you so much for your responses! They were very insightful and a real help. Unfortunately, I am unable to attend any of the campuses or admit days. I have never visited any of the campuses and for the most part, haven’t been to any of the states where they are located either. I live abroad and sadly won’t be able to make a decision based on campus ‘feel’
Are Stanford’s undergraduate classes particularly big? Does anyone know the average class size?
Of course, I don’t expect to do all these things at the same time. I think I just have many interests and am looking for a school where I would be able to take classes in them at any point during my time there. I will definitely become more focused on one particular area as I go.
This sounds incredible! Is it rare? Must I qualify for it?
My son went to stanford for undergraduate, and now at stanford for mba/ms-cs. Compared with his fellow graduate students, he does not feel that his stanford undergraduate eduation was inferior to any other school. Sure, from time to time he had some “bad” professors who did not know how to teach, like in any school.
Going to stanford is mainly for its majors. Literally anything you want to study is ranked at the highest level.
You can look up class size information in section I of the Common Data Set
(http://ucomm.stanford.edu/cds/2015#faculty)
Each school’s US News entry also has class size information (under “academic life”).
The percentage of “big” classes (>= 50 students) according to USNWR is:
11.4% Stanford
10.4% Penn
9.1% Columbia
7.7% Rice
6.1% Duke
5.7% UChicago
For specific courses, you may be able to find enrollment numbers in the online course listings for each term. Just because Stanford has 2x as many “big” classes as Chicago, overall, doesn’t necessarily mean that’s a good comparison for the classes that matter most to you.
The areas OP is interested in are the smaller class size areas while some of the STEM fields (CS in particular) are the ones with larger classes. The student-to-faculty ratio is lower at Stanford than Columbia.
@Emma27 Stanford’s classes aren’t particularly big - although some majors have larger classes than others those majors aren’t the ones you’ve listed. Stanford’s student-to-faculty ratio for undergrads is 4:1. http://facts.stanford.edu/academics/undergraduate. The ratio at Columbia is 6:1.
The creative writing courses are a little different than normal courses since they’re (the only?) courses you have to enter a lottery to get into. They’re known as bucket-list courses because many students try to take English 90 or 91 before graduating. Really they’re a lot of fun and have a great reputation. Even though it’s a “lottery” there are usually several offerings of the courses each quarter and you’ll almost always get the time slot for one of you top choices. If you are an English major or creative writing minor then you’ll get priority and should have no problem getting the top choice course time. I’ve always had my top choice slot and most people do just fine in the lottery. The course with Tobias Wolff is like any other intro course where you enter the lottery and don’t need to pre-qualify. If you’re an English major/cw minor then you’d have a good chance of getting in. The one-on-one course I don’t know too much about but I think you have to have a piece you’ve been working on and then a Stegner fellow will workshop it with you. They start opening it up as an option when you’re in the intro level cw courses so you don’t have to be incredibly experienced/high level to have the opportunity. You don’t have to pre-qualify but you do need to apply I think. Also, you’re allowed to take grad-level English courses and you’re welcome to contact anyone in the English department and ask about having them help you with work. Everyone I’ve met/talked to has been more than happy to chat.
As far as class sizes, creative writing ones are capped at 15 while language ones are capped at 16. Many of the less common language classes are actually much smaller than the caps. As a freshman in particular you can take “intro seminars” on dozens of different topics. These seminars are capped at 16 and are usually with particularly impressive professors. Class sizes usually decrease as you move from intro level courses to higher level ones. Econ 1/Polisci 1 are probably the largest classes you’ll take at around 120-150 students (which, for an introduction course in a major field of study, is actually not that large). I’d expect that most schools’ intro econ/polisci courses are larger. After the intro courses you can expect much smaller (30 or less) class sizes. I just looked up one random option for the econ major, Econ 145, which had a class size of 29. Looking up another option for the major, Econ 157, the class size is 18. You also usually have quite a bit of flexibility in choosing courses and can go out of your way to take smaller classes.
Also, if you’re on financial aid (or even if you’re not) you should ask Stanford and Columbia about if they will help pay for you to visit. It’s not uncommon for Stanford to help fly students out for admit weekend if finances are a concern.
Columbia is big on core curriculum that all students are required to take, and is also located in the greatest city in the world! For what you’re looking for, Columbia might be better. Especially for political science, you also want to keep in mind where there are politics related internships for you to take. Good luck!
@julie846 Actually, all things being equal, it seems like OP’s interests align better with Stanford (assuming that financially both work and that the feel of both schools work).
If you want to explore many areas then a big core curriculum is NOT what you’re looking for (since it specifies areas you must explore, you don’t have as much freedom in choosing areas you want to explore). The core might overlap with your interests, but it will likely include courses you’re not interested in that you must take in place of courses you’re actually interested in. Stanford is ranked higher in both political science and economics than Columbia. Manhattan is a great city, but most wouldn’t call it the “greatest city in the world” (although it’s completely a matter of opinion). Stanford is near San Francisco, another major city, and there will be no shortages of internships at either schools.
Any comparison of these two excellent universities will be subjective rather than objective.
Having said that, unless being in the Big Apple is really important to you, go to Stanford. The academics, location, weather, student body, campus - truly a great experience.
