Columbia vs. Stanford

Colleges and Universities A-Z Columbia University
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<p>I applied to pretty much every top University and I am weighing Stanford, Columbia, and Princeton. I got into engineering in both Princeton and Columbia and also the Egleston scholarship in Columbia, which means you get a $10k research grant, better financial aid (don't know if this will help or not yet), guaranteed internships, extra advisors, and a few more things.</p>

<p>I'm interested in biomedical engineering (thinking about other engineering), medicine and economics/business. I love having the very strong core curriculum at Columbia. Stanford also has that very strong core to some degree. I also like Princeton, but the town doesn't seem to compare well to Stanford and NYC. Also NYC is simply unbeatable as a college location, especially with all the job/internships options it has to offer. </p>

<p>Princeton seems to be lagging behind the others now because I really didn't like the idea of having eating clubs as the main social venue and it also seems to be more of an "Old boys' club" than the other 2. All three have equally beautiful campuses, even though Stanford's weather is slightly better (I don't mind east coast cold though). The only negative I've heard about Columbia is bad dorms, but that doesn't seem to be a huge issue. </p>

<p>I'm not completely sure about the strengths of the specific programs, but I need some help weighing the options and deciding. Also, is there a big "prestige" and name difference between the three?</p>

2

<p>hey falcon -</p>

<p>first, the egleston scholar thing i’ve heard is a huge deal, in that only a handful of students get it, and comparable to the Rabi Scholarships columbia gives out for sciences that really are the premier ivy league scholarship out there as is. it really makes columbia a very attractive option even compared to a place like stanford that is a more engineering place.</p>

<p>you’d be part of the first class so you can really set the tone, it is pretty excited.</p>

<p>overall it sounds like you have a really good head on your shoulders, you know what you want, and you have good reads about these schools. ultimately, visit both if you can, see which one feels best, and you can’t go wrong with either. of course i hope you choose columbia, you must be sort of a rockstar to get the egleston scholar, and beyond how much it sounds you have coming in to columbia - i think columbia will contribute significantly to who you are and how you see the world. </p>

<p>you’ll have so many ways to involve yourself that go beyond the university setting that just adds to your experience, it is about new york, it is about the way columbia operates in its neighborhood, in the world even. </p>

<p>best of luck with your decision, let me know if you have questions.</p>

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<p>I am VERY happy with my Carman dorm, will have a single next year.</p>

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<p>yeah dorms are not so bad, I’ve been pretty satisfied (nice single 3/4 years). Stanford definitely does not have a large prestige advantage over Columbia, in some circles Columbia is considered more prestigious, but I don’t think this should be a reason to choose either. Stanford has a superior engineering program for most types of engineering, but this is probably not the only factor you are considering. After visiting princeton, I would definitely agree that the choice comes down to Stanford vs. Columbia, princeton is resource rich and a gorgeous campus, but I found the students and place pretty suffocating and definitely had that old boys club vibe. </p>

<p>Honestly bottom line is come visit and see for yourself where you’d rather be, I think you are pretty fortunate to be in a egleston at Columbia vs. Stanford position.</p>

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<p>Will choosing Columbia over Stanford mean there will be less opportunities for job recruitment and a small disadvantage when applying to grad/med school (this is the only reason I was asking about prestige) ? The job options I’m currently considering (which are quite apt to change) are some form of banking/finance position, or medicine, with a slight preference for medicine as of now.</p>

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<p>hey falcon - i’d say for either med or banking/finance - it is a bit of a wash neither has a larger advantage. whereas stanford has a big in with silicon valley jobs (which tend to be popular nowadays), and some pretty good tech transfer, it really doesn’t beat out columbia in recruiting for banking (though maybe beats out columbia when it comes to consulting, though debateable). being in nyc is a huge advantage on this count.</p>

<p>it is also a lot more ‘natural’ to go from columbia engineering into finance than it is to go from most any other engineering school into finance, in part because of the way the school is set up to be more open to alternative futures and the strong history of kids going into financial services from seas.</p>

<p>but that also means if you wanna do medicine you aren’t disadvantaged at all, probably columbia/nyc is a bigger advantage because of the greater concentration of med centers and surrounding industries. you could be doing research at any number of universities beyond just working at columbia’s own labs - and the egleston grant will help make that happen. plus the strong research background you’ll have will probably make you very competitive for any number of md/phd or md programs you might want to attend - would help you stand out considerably.</p>

<p>as for med school, i don’t have data on that just the things i’ve heard from the preprof office that says columbia students get into med school as consistently as the other top ivies and stanford (all somewhere in the 80% of students, with most columbia students getting into their top choice school - the largest cohort goes to columbia med, with the third largest going to harvard med, so big names there). but other than that they are kind of mum on other stats.</p>

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<p>I would focus on what actual day-to-day life on each campus would be like. If you think you would feel most comfortable the next four years in a suburb, go to Stanford or Princeton (one is essentially the mirror image of the other, albeit Stanford has a much larger graduate population, which likely would not have a huge impact on your daily college life). If you think the big city is for you, go to Columbia. My younger suburban son, now at Columbia, could not picture spending four more years in the suburbs, so he did not even consider Stanford or Princeton. He loves Columbia.</p>

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<p>I really love New York City, and I’d like to get out of the suburbs that I’ve been living at all my life (in st. louis). The only thing is, i’ve been reading a lot of threads about Columbia and it seems that nearly all of them are gripe threads (there aren’t many threads in general in the stanford section so I don’t know much about that) I just wanted to ask about them to make sure it’s not too big of a deal. I heard a lot about how bad the bureaucracy is at Columbia. Does this have a big impact?</p>

<p>Also, I was very disappointed that you can’t transfer from SEAS to CC if my interests change over the next few years. I think for finance/economics/med school preparation, SEAS would be better. What do others think of this?</p>

<p>My last concern, is regarding the US news list of undergraduate teaching.
[Best</a> Colleges - Education - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/national-ut-rank]Best”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/national-ut-rank)
I was just wondering about this, and I know US news isn’t the best resource for these kinds of things, but it still raises questions about Columbia’s commitment to undergrads. </p>

<p>Any thoughts on the above points would be very welcome. Also, it turns out I got into johns hopkins’ biomedical engineering program which makes my choice even tougher…</p>

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<p>1) the bureaucracy at columbia is a unique thing and i’ve written extensively on it. i was involved in campus and worked with admins closely so i know their perspective. a lot of it honestly has to do with living under a microscope that is nyc, and the fact that the university has many competing interests going on simultaneously. when you come from that perspective of understanding you roll with the punches more. an example: columbia had been wanting to build a dorm for a long time in the late 90s (what is now Broadway) - they did like 5 years of studies, went through the city review process, when they finally finished the designs and showed it to the neighborhood folks there was stiff opposition even though columbia owned the land and it was contiguous to campus. it ended up being a protracted negotiation which led to the NY pub library branch being on the first floor of the building where the architect had planned a grand lobby. faculty were also upset they were being displaced from a building that used to sit on the site, so it meant columbia actually built two identical looking buildings (one 10 blocks south) with the latter becoming faculty apartments.</p>

<p>and pbr has hit this issue square on the nose before, living in the city creates this culture of quick expectations, you can get most everything whenever you want that when you don’t get something you do gripe.</p>

<p>in reality - the university is pretty responsive, i think some admins should be fired for doing a crap job, but the majority of the lot work hella long hours to help students and take your concerns strongly.</p>

<p>a final comment - so there are lot of folks pushing and pulling within and outside of the university (fox news loves to cover any would-be scandal on campus) so it makes columbia a bit byzantine, but without question like any bureaucracy there is a way around it, find folks you can trust, and talk to upperclassmen and you can breeze through life. but in the end realize that living in a big city like new york has its hassles along with its wonders.</p>

<p>2) you can transfer, you just need a good reason to transfer - usually that means not going from biomed engineering to bio. for the most part though, what you major in college does not dictate who you are or what you can become. so it is suggested and encouraged that you don’t sweat the small stuff. ugrad life is very much intermixed between schools (and including barnard) it becomes like one ugrad community, you live, eat, argue and work together.</p>

<p>3) i think that thing is bollocks. first by most measures columbia is as intimate academically and focused undergrad, it has more smaller classes, fewer larger classes, and one of the lowest student to faculty ratio in the biz. columbia has dedicated millions of dollars to continuing its core curriculum (at a time when other schools have been reducing requirements to cut down on extra faculty) because they see this ugrad experience as being so central to the character of the university. </p>

<p>but here is the stuff that stats can’t show - i chose columbia because of the teaching. when i visited many moons ago now, i sat in on a pair of classes and was blown away, in fact i can count only on one hand the number of bad or subpar experiences i had throughout my 4 years, most of the profs were just absolutely brilliant. i visited some peer schools and did the same thing, and also some LAC schools and was thoroughly disappointed. columbia was different. even in large lecture classes, profs give you this sense that they are talking right to you, they are prepared, engaging, interesting, quirky, and brilliant. and above all - available. i was a research asst for a prof (in the humanities) and formed a very close relationship and got acknowledged in a pair of books. when i go back to campus i still hit up some teaching assts for coffee to chat or hang out. now that i’m affiliated with another institution (one that is actually on that list) i can say affirmatively few universities think about and care for their ugrads as much as columbia (and are as underrated by it). sure this is just one guy’s perspective, but i hope you realize it is in the end why i feel so indebted to columbia academically.</p>

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<p>adgeek nails most of it, but to emphasize:</p>

<p>3) Columbia is definitely undergrad focused, I wouldn’t be able to tell how how focused on its grad students Columbia is, because frankly I rarely meet grad students or feel like I share resources with them. I have never once felt that grad students have detracted from my experience here. People stigmatize Columbia for this because:
a) 65-75% of the students enrolled in the University are grad students
and b) We’re a research powerhouse</p>

<p>But neither of these necessitate a detraction away from undergrad education, while many outsiders conjecture a dichotomy, I have not found one in practice. The profs who teach us care a lot about us, we’re in small classes, with very low student:faculty ratios. I was able to get a research job in an engineering dept. on campus second semester freshman year (that’s when I first looked for one). I’m not and never was interested in academia, but I helped write a massive report on energy, was recognized in the report and had it published in a bunch of international development and related journals. Again, this is your average undergrad student (no prior research experience, no scholars program, no burning interest in academia, still freshman) in a tiny team with a brilliant and experienced professor, helping in significant research and being invited over to his apartment with other research assistants for social events and to meet his family. </p>

<p>The teaching has been stellar, I’ve definitely had a few worthless profs, but overall it’s been fantastic. I was taught by a phd candidate twice (this occurs infrequently), and both times they were the best teachers I had that semester. But each semester I have multiple profs who are riveting, care about their students and deeply insightful, they really have contributed to who I am and what I know today.</p>

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<p>The two above replies have given me a great perspective and compelling reasons to attend Columbia. I will certainly keep my eyes open during admitted students weekend. Your words have definitely boosted Columbia a lot in my mind now that some of my doubts have been assuaged to great extent. </p>

<p>Also, the reason I asked about switching was because I’m interested in both the sciences and economics, and I thought that having the flexibility to transfer from SEAS to CC to study economics would be a good thing to have in case I change my mind. This is possible right? It’s not likely that I would change from an applied science major to a pure science one (like biomed to just bio). </p>

<p>I keep hearing about a weak alumni network at Columbia, but why is this even important/ is it? Just wondering. </p>

<p>Once again thank you for the great replies.</p>

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<p>FYI, you can minor in Economics as an engineer. I know some kids in SEAS doing that. Also consider Financial Engineering (it’s supposed to be the nation’s best).</p>

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<p>I’ve been hearing about the FE program being considered “#1” recently. Do you have a source? In the videos on their website, the IEOR professors refer to it as “top 2” (#1 being NYU, I believe). Also, the rankings refer to the Masters in FE program.</p>

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<p>I’m in seas and an Econ minor, I’ve taken as many classes in economics as an econ major would, so there is ample opportunity to study economics. Some of the IEOR classes are sort of like quantitative methods applied to economic problems.</p>

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<p>Columbia MFE program is usually ranked in the top 3-5, whether it’s #1 or not shouldn’t change much esp as an undergrad. Point is there are some kick a$$ profs in the dept:</p>

<p>[goMFE</a> >> Social Network for MFE students !! - Master in Financial Engineering …: Rankings: Quantiative / Financial Engineering Master](<a href=“http://mastersinfinancialengineering.blogspot.com/2007/08/rankings-quantiative-financial.html]goMFE”>goMFE >> Social Network for MFE students !! - Master in Financial Engineering ...: Rankings: Quantiative / Financial Engineering Master)</p>

<p>[2009</a> QuantNetwork Ranking of Financial Engineering Programs | Quant Network](<a href=“http://www.quantnet.com/mfe-programs-rankings]2009”>2023 QuantNet Ranking of Best Financial Engineering Programs | QuantNet Community)</p>

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<p>I was wondering about the differences between SEAS and CC in terms of general program strength, how much people like SEAS, rankings and prestige.</p>

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<p>at this point they are pretty much co-equal schools, there was some time when seas in part because administratively they were so separated that there was a gradiant between the two, but at this point they are pretty much treated as one unit. you have one student affairs, everyone lives together, at times you have different celebrations (seas days v. college days), but your daily interactions are mostly felt as columbia students.</p>

<p>seas is probably the second most selective engineering ugrad school in the country, it has an absurd level of quality and smarts among its population, but in the end engineering is more self-selecting so the pool and kinds of students are more math/sci oriented so you don’t see the wide breadth that you do in the college. </p>

<p>the one thing to add is that SEAS does have sort of a community within a community feel. students are pretty devout to the Fu, show pride at every step and are more rambunctious than college students at commencement. </p>

<p>as for concrete differences - they have diff requirements of course, but all the non-eng specific courses you take are with college students within the arts and sciences, and you have all the same privileges to take courses outside of your area of study. but there are world-acclaimed profs at both schools and you can take advantage of the full uni while you are here (you aren’t siphoned away).</p>

<p>and of course there is a different lifestyle in doing problem sets every week to writing a paper every few weeks. and in that regard a lot of natural science and eng students naturally have more in common.</p>

<p>the best way to think about it - the college is like the refined and mild-mannered older brother, seas is the more fun, more energetic younger brother. there are at times sibling rivalry, but in the end they play off of each other very well.</p>

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<p>In my opinion, I think that Stanford is the better choice, because of the academic freedom. If you don’t like engineering in SEAS, it’s an extremely competitive process to transfer to the college. You will be treated like any other transfer student and there’s an 8% admissions rate. I thought about going through this process and I talked to my adviser, who has sat on the admissions committee. She gave me no bull, and told me to diversify between all the schools I’m interested in.</p>

<p>If you’re set on financial services (especially traditional S&T, IB, and Equity Research roles), being an engineer won’t help that much landing an interview or a job. They need technical people, and there’s nothing wrong with an economics major, though it’s much easier and less technical. That said, competing with Columbia College students for jobs in the financial services is difficult, given their inflated GPA’s.</p>

<p>Financial Engineering is definitely a good major at Columbia. That extra word (financial) really means that the dull-headed recruiter knows your major is relevant and won’t recommend you do a Technology role at the bank. Seriously, reconsider your options and do more research. I guess it’s a self-selecting pool, but Columbia students who post here seriously have a rosy view of the school. (And no one, I mean no one, calls this place Fu) “Fu Foundation School of Engineering and Applied Science or SEAS as it is popularly known, is the engineering school of Columbia. No one calls it Fu. Ever.” (Taken from WikiCu when you search SEAS).</p>

<p>FalcolnWing, you’re definitely more knowledgeable than I was when I decided on Columbia. Your two points regarding the difficulty of transferring and the qualify of the undergraduate education are things that I should have considered. The undergraduate education here is variable. There are departments that are stellar and departments that are awful. Mathematics (especially low level ones) are absolute garbage and no one attends class. The IEOR department is very good about their mathematics classes and the professors are competent. Overall, the university is not undergraduate focused and the lack of compassion by the administration is evident and bureaucracy. For example, the last day of finals for the fall semester (2009, 2010, and 2011) is December 24th. Students are rightfully angry but changing the schedule in order to end several days earlier has proven impossible given the ineffectiveness of the University Senate and other administrative bodies. No one cares.</p>

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<p>falconwing, make up your mind by visiting, i can’t say there aren’t the fair share of beard taxes at columbia. there were quite a few in my day. but then again, i know quite a few kids that hated stanford (and palo alto even moreso). so let’s not pretend and play absolutes. neither school is ideal (if that were the case, we wouldn’t have people that choose one or the other, or who dislike their experience). choose what feels best.</p>

<p>in the end it is your decision. it is good to know that there is a spectrum of liking a place. i’m on the extreme, beard or some of the other posters are on the other extreme. </p>

<p>and it is hard to trust someone like beard when they get their facts wrong - the last day of class is the 23rd for these eyars. nor does he note as i do on here that some faculty members have significant concerns about moving it. i don’t think they are justified, but they have their concerns. and in the end the president is creating a task force to figure this out, and said he would put student issues at the forefront of finding a solution.</p>

<p>i’m sorry beard i called it the Fu, or that my friends have at one time or another called it that. i am sorry to challenge your assumptions or to offer a rosy picture of a school i love.</p>

<p>if you act negative about a place, it is hard not just to enjoy the place, but to enjoy life in general. so to falcon - wherever you pick, don’t look back, don’t ask what if, enjoy the place as much as you possibly can, so perhaps some time in the future you’ll be able to offer your own rosy picture.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the great advice everyone, especially admissionsgeek. Encouraging me to make my own decision makes everything you said even more credible. In the end, I’ll make my decision when I visit on the campus days. Also, what you said about making a decision and not turning back is one of the best pieces of advice I’ve heard. If you turn and look back and start regretting, no matter what you’ll be miserable. Thus, once I make my decision I will surely stick with it.</p>