Columbia VS. UPenn VS Cornell. Best fit?

College Search & Selection
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<p>You’re good. Those are some of the reasons why I short-listed only these 3 colleges. No H,P because they don’t have ED, and no S and Y because I’ve heard that a “good” applicant (By Ivy standards) stands a better chance at RD at Y and S, the EA being far more competitive. Silverturtle had done a research of sorts on this.
I want to major in engineering with an emphasis on liberal arts subjects. I don’t know what I will do after college. I might want to become a working engineer, or work at some corporate firm. But this doesn’t help me find my ED college, since all of the schools provide the same opportunities for students like me, right?</p>

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Are Columbia and Penn more lively, in any way? Do they have more intl’ students?</p>

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Can anyone vouch for this? Is Cornell really depressing? As an intl’ student, I have no clue about any of this.</p>

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This is where the problem is. I haven’t been to a collegetown or an urban city in the US, so I don’t know which one would I prefer. I know that, I love a place that is lively, full of kids that are eager to learn, and gives loads of opportunities to get involved in things other than the ones that are related to engineering. Campus life is important too, but I guess that’s there for all the colleges in question.</p>

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<p>Ideally you would visit. Short of that you might check out student blogs on the admissions site (under “Student Life” tab), they may give you a feel for what people are doing there.</p>

<p>For me, whether it was depressing or exhilarating had a lot more to do with the state of my social life at the time than the place, or the weather, or anything else.</p>

<p>The nature of campus life is probably quite different, actually.</p>

<p>Cornell has plenty of international students, don’t know about columbia proper but obviously NYC has many times more internationals in general.</p>

<p>"…all of the schools provide the same opportunities for students like me, right? "</p>

<p>since you mentioned taking lots of liberal arts courses, you might check specific requirements, a long time ago a Fu alum alleged that they had great leniency in the number of free electives they could take outside their college. I don’t know if there are significant differences in this regard or not.</p>

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<p>BTW it is true that the Fall is rather rainy, however it is nonethless beautiful there as the pictures I posted previously show. And the winter is rather long, true enough.</p>

<p>I liked the rain, mostly. I found the place still beautiful, even often in the winter. And I found that natural beauty inspiring, not depressing. </p>

<p>As I said, depressing or not involved other issues for me, not the weather. YMMV and all that. I can’t guarantee you won’t be depressed there. I can’t guarantee you won’t be depressed in NYC either. Many people in NYC are desperately lonely and depressed, because the place is so huge it is difficult for them to meet people at a personal level and maintain relationships. When you aren’t constanty interacting with the same people all the time it can be difficult to form relationships. Relationships, to me, are more the issue in personal happiness and well-being, at this stage. IMO.</p>

<p>Hopefully, wherever you go, you will connect with a nice group of kids and then you will have no need to feel depressed.</p>

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<p>“Suicides, solitude and boredom aren’t really a student’s top preferences.”</p>

<p>Misconceptions:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Suicides. I’d add my voice to the group arguing that Cornell’s suicide rate is most likely not significantly different from similar competitive schools. While this is certainly not some laid back place with mantra chanting students elbow to elbow on yoga mats dotting the quads, that’s not a scene I’ve ever witnessed in University City or Morningside Heights either. </p></li>
<li><p>Solitude. Drive 10 minutes outside of Ithaca and you’ll find plenty of solitude. But on a campus with 20,000 other kids? Plan on ear plugs.</p></li>
<li><p>Boredom. Ithaca may not be my “idyll” college town and I may see more gloom than beauty in the long gray winter than monydad does, but you’d be pretty hard pressed not to find tons of things to do 7 days a week on a campus this size and this active.</p></li>
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<p>My 2 cents: If campus life matters, Penn may be your best compromise. Columbia is much more city than campus oriented than Penn. If, on the other hand, you can do without the perqs of a a city for the next four years, Cornell will off a more traditional (American) college campus centered experience.</p>

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<p>monydad’s daughter transferred out of barnard to go to cornell, so you can understand why he’s revealing negative views about the college and nyc. </p>

<p>NYC is not as expensive as everyone makes it out to be. it’s easy to blow up a lot of money on entertainment here, but there’s tons of free and cheap entertainment / cultural things (art galleries, museums, salsa dancing lessons etc.) to do and tons of great cheap restaurants as well. A college budget for columbia in new york needs to be about 10-15% higher than that at penn. we’re talking 900 vs. 800, 1150 vs. 1000 or 1700 vs. 1500 per semester depending on how much you want to spend. NYC has entertainment for the richest of the rich but is also filled with middle class people who want to have a great time and not break the bank. while NYC can be lonely and depressing, the columbia campus is extremely vibrant, there are tons of things going on, it’s compact and separated from the rest of the city, you’re always running into friends and running into things to do with them. Columbia is definitely intimidating and not particularly cozy, but it’s not depressing or boring or unaffordable as people here stereotype it to be.</p>

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<p>^So true. The cost of student life in Morningside Heights is entirely manageable. I’ve posted before about my Columbia son’s success in financing his entire social life with full-time summer jobs and a part-time job during the school year. For all I know, he is currently enjoying the Wednesday night special ($1 draft beer) at a favorite local haunt.</p>

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What do you mean “intimidating and not particularly cozy”? Intimidating because of the competition in the school? Isn’t that everywhere?
How was your experience at Columbia (Campus life, friends, courses, professors, boarding)? :)</p>

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How is Columbia more city-oriented than Penn? Penn too, is located right in the middle of a bustling city, right?</p>

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I feel I will too, find the natural beauty, and the rainy/cloudy weather inspiring, as long as I have some friends to live that experience with!
As for the educational opportunities, all the 3 colleges are similar. Since I want to take up engineering as my major, Cornell is the best ranked about the three, and Columbia and Penn are very similarly ranked. But rankings don’t matter much, as long as the colleges are great, and the job prospects after college are good. So ultimately, does come to down to this: Would I prefer a City Life, or a Collegetown Life.
Did you daughter happen to mention any changes she felt after she transferred from Columbia to Cornell? Cornell’s a bigger college, Ithaca is very different from Manhattan, and the colleges must have different vibes, right?</p>

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What kind of summer jobs and part time jobs did your son do? And I hope it isn’t rude to ask, how much was he able to earn through those jobs? I have heard that many colleges do not allow international students to take up part-time jobs in the college, I’m not sure if this is true, though.</p>

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<p>Most of us will eventually work and live in big cities. College may be the only time one has the opportunity to enjoy living in a wonderful college town. Cornell’s beautiful campus is situated in what’s broadly considered one of America’s best college towns. Also. Cornell has fewer total students than Penn and Columbia, as the latter 2 schools have many more grad and part-time students.</p>

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<p>"monydad’s daughter transferred out of barnard to go to cornell, so you can understand why he’s revealing negative views about the college and nyc. "</p>

<p>Yes, I’m reflecting what she told me, in part, because she didn’t like it there in NYC and likes it much better in Ithaca. She has lived in both places. Actually so have I.</p>

<p>You make it sound like that somehow that should invalidate our perspectives.
IMO those perspectives are well informed and perfectly valid. She lived there.</p>

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<p>to the OP … </p>

<p>As far a weather goes all 3 schools are relatively in the same region in the US … Cornell’s winters will be a tad worse and Penn’s will be a tad better. If you do not want to experience 4 seasons (which I love but some do not like winters) then think South or West … schools like Stanford and Duke will have much “better” weather than any of the original 3 schools (better here is defined as no winter and more warmth and sun).</p>

<p>Attending undergrad in a city and in a college town are very different … one is not inherently better or worse but different … and most people prefer one of the other. I was an undergrad at Cornell and now live in a city within a mile of both Boston College and Boston University and have a daughter who goes to college literally across the street from Columbia. </p>

<p>Social life in Ithaca will be more school centric and even a lot of businesses in town will tend to cater to the student/academic crowd … if someone likes to hang with their friends, go to school events, go to a movie, or maybe wander off campus for a bite to eat or a movie (or in Ithaca’s case for a hike or kayat trip) then going to school in Ithaca can be great. If you love to shop, go to pro sprts games, go to lots of muesums, go clubbing, or do other big city things A LOT than being in Ithaca will probably not work for you. Personally, I think going to school in a college town emphasizes friendships over outside activities … and social life tends to focus around groups of freinds doing college related stuff also. (Ithaca is not barren of stores … there is an excellent muesum on campus … the school has theater and orchestras … etc … however this in no way compares to being in Manhattan)</p>

<p>Going to school in a big city provides access to tons of outside options … Broadway for theater, some of the best muesums in the world, pro sports, shopping, clubs, more and bigger concerts, etc. … as well as on-campus activities. While the list of school activities will look similar due to the non-school stuff available MANY more students head off campus at city schools for fun … which tends to lesson the cohesiveness of the campus life compared to collegetown schools. This is not better or worse but different.</p>

<p>PS - one last thought … with my oldest I visited all the highly selective urban campuses in the northeast. At Columbia one literally steps out into a bustling upper west side (meaning well off) residential neighborhood. Of the other top 25 schools in the northeast the only other school which matched the immediate urban location was Georgetown. Penn is not in the best neighborhood in Philly, personally I think living there is fine but it is not a neighborhood where you wander around directly off campus a lot … downtown Philly which is GREAT is directly across a river so maybe 1/2 mile away … it is VERY close but not literally right outside the gate of the school.</p>

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<p>Nice perspective, and more to the essential points. Indeed the most important difference may be the impact of the city on the degree of connectedness one is likely to have to campus and student life.</p>

<p>There are those who love being in the city, with all it offers. But there are also those who may feel that the effect of the city can drain the spirit of the collegiate atmosphere, and would prefer to feel their college years are spent on a campus with their fellow students instead of stranded on the sidewalk. To paraphrase something I read.</p>

<p>“Going to school in a big city provides access to tons of outside options … Broadway for theater, some of the best muesums in the world, pro sports, shopping, clubs, more and bigger concerts, etc.”</p>

<p>Absolutely true, but D2 rarely wanted to go to museums, after going once or twice, and she found that most of those other things she actually wanted to do cost quite a bit of $$ on a student budget. Her report (confirmed by Columbia nephew) was weekends everyone trooped off campus, and this always cost $ and she found it boring after a while to boot. Now instead of going downtown to clubs, or whatever it was they were actually really doing most of the time which was not going to museums, she’s more likely to be going to friend’s house parties in collegetown (for free) or doing stuff on or near campus, or in town for that matter. In all cases it is lower key, more intimate, and cheaper.</p>

<p>Here’s an excerpt from another current post elsewhere on CC:
“While there are some free and cheap things to do in NYC, I didn’t like being a poor student there during the '80’s. Yes, I could get standing room tickets, wait for free evenings for museums and the once a semester “Urban New York” opportunity (free tickets to an activity paid for by alumni or the college), but it’s hard when you are conscious of so many things going on and you just can’t afford to do/see them.”</p>

<p>It’s not like there’s nothing to do in Ithaca. I recently looked, the same movies were playing there as were playing here in NYC suburbs. There are bars there, there is sports, there is theater, there is music, not any comparison whatsoever to how much, but many there find it sufficient (most of the time) given the other demands on their time, and it is likely to be economically feasible to enjoy what’s there. I just checked one current tour, the same concert, from the same artist tickets are half the price in Ithaca vs. NYC.</p>

<p>But IMO much more important than the cost is how the nature and connectedness of campus life changes in the two environments, as you indicated. That’s what D2 would say, in answer to #32 above.</p>

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<p>itsmylife99, I have no idea whether international students are allowed to have a part-time job while on campus at Columbia. My son works 7-10 hours per week during the school year, at $13 per hour, doing administrative work a couple of blocks from campus. During the summer, he worked full time as a camp counselor earning $11 per hour. He probably made $3,500 over the summer while living at home.</p>

<p>Although he roams into NYC occasionally, his social life absolutely revolves around campus activities. I’m sure some of his friends head off to the city every weekend, but he spends most of his weekend evenings with his fraternity and/or at various campus parties.</p>

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<p>I would agree fraternities are a great alternative there, if you fit.
They were the center of my nephew’s social life there.</p>

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<p>Philadelphia, while large, is much smaller than NYC. However many here argue that being smaller than NYC is preferable for your college years. I found Penn to be a terrific experience where the city complemented the campus life, but the campus was very much the center of the Penn universe.</p>