Columbia vs Wharton

Colleges and Universities A-Z Columbia University
21

<p>MyBlsflHrt: Friends were able to get internships at BBs through</p>

<p>1) Campus postings (infrequent)
2) meeting an alum at an alumni event (infrequent)
3) meeting an alum at a company presentation (frequent)
4) Apply directly through a company website, or even emailing people in the firm asking for an interview if there is some Columbia connection (frequent)
5) Wealthy and have connections with a BB (I’d don’t count these, even though there are quite a few in this category)</p>

<p>It quite common to work at small p.e., hedge funds and boutique i-banks during the year. This, on paper, is almost as effective working at a BB, but as experience to talk about in an interview, probably beats working at a round the year internship at a BB.</p>

<p>Finally Wharton’s dominance is definitely over-stated here, while they have tons of people on wall street, part of that stems from the fact that many many more people apply to wall street from wharton than from columbia. Probably only 10-15% of Columbia College and 30% of SEAS is even interested in finance (that’s 200 people per year), at penn it’s probably 600-700 people per year who are interested in finance, 300-400 of whom come from Wharton, so I would expect many more from Wharton and upenn to get in. Harvard is a more reasonable comparison to Columbia and they do better than us on wall street.</p>

<p>Again, I think Wharton does places better than Columbia (even when you account for the number of people applying), but we are recruited pretty heavily as well. being in NYC means it costs firms virtually nothing to interview tons of kids, and honestly, once you get an interview the job is yours to win or lose. If a company finds brilliant people from college X one year, they will hire more from X, the difficult part is getting the interview in the first place.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the information! I’m pretty much convinced that I want to go to Columbia now. :)</p>

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<p>Please be honest MyBlsHrt. According to your earlier posts, you did not even apply to Wharton.</p>

<p>You may be anonymous, but the least we can expect in this community is some integrity. Such rouses fool no one and they reflect badly on your character.</p>

<p>Edit:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I’m glad you cleared that up. At least you had the character to correct yourself when you erred, I appreciate that. Now that shows me that you have ethics worth admiring. It was, afterall, a simple error of judgement. In future, I would just be more careful with what I write. I would go to Columbia over Lehigh if I were you. Barnard is a near dead end if you are looking to work on Wall Street, as is Lehigh. Go to CC.</p>

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<p>I did not start this thread. I was just trying to decide between Columbia and Lehigh’s business school. Sorry for the misunderstanding, I never meant for anyone to think I was accepted Wharton. The reason why I strongly considering Lehigh over Columbia is that I can attend Lehigh for free. What do you think, is that a good deal?</p>

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<p>Also, I was waitlisted at Barnard. Is there anything I can do to help me get off the waitlist? (I actually prefer Barnard over Columbia) :(</p>

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<p>Even if it was free? I have to pay $10,000 a year at Columbia which I consider to be a lot of money!</p>

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<p>i’d attend columbia over lehigh bschool, and i think my reasoning has a lot to do with the high expectations i place on myself and my desire to be part of a very rigorous, intense and yet supportive environment.</p>

<p>lehigh is very much a regional school that doesn’t have a lot of connections or clout outside of the mid-atlantic, and doesn’t quite penetrate NYC that well.coming from allentown, i know you probably know the school well because it is a big deal there, but it doesn’t have that much clout outside, you have to admit that.</p>

<p>ultimately, columbia even at 10k a year is a great option if it is financially feasible (wont drive you or your family into bankruptcy). and 40k over 4 yrs is rather reasonable considering the benefits. </p>

<p>there are two so called schools of thought - first is that it doesn’t matter where you attend, it is what you do with it; and second that where you attend matters. in general the first only applies either among comparable schools, or for individuals that perhaps have more regional desires (like you don’t care what you do in life, want to stay in NE PA, then Lehigh free is a fine choice, means you have no expenses). </p>

<p>But there is a big jump in terms of a) quality of your peers, b) quantity of opportunities, between Lehigh to Columbia that I’d say paying a bit is worth it unquestionably. Columbia, however, caters toward the ‘ivy-minded’ student, someone who wants to push barriers in some capacity, if even working in a parochial setting, they have wider ambitions (challenging status quo, developing new technologies, accumulating wealth). Columbia prepares you in that frame of thinking, and also provides you the network to make good on that.</p>

<p>For someone that wants to just live a classic americana lifestyle (kids, job, dog) and perhaps regionally focused - for them it is harder to determine whether or not it is worth the cost. It is not to say those students don’t go to an ivy, nor do they appreciate the education, but in that case going to an ivy is not ‘necessary,’ but more of an extra.</p>

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<p>Hey,</p>

<p>I have compiled many of my arguments in favor of Wharton here: </p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-pennsylvania/902457-wharton-mythbusters.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-pennsylvania/902457-wharton-mythbusters.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Do check it out, there are a lot of misconceptions floating around about Wharton, you would do well to be able to differentiate between the fact and the fiction.</p>

29

<p>kafka, don’t ■■■■■ and don’t flame. wharton has some things. but columbia has many things that wharton doesn’t nor couldn’t offer.</p>

<p>and in the end there are multiple paths that may end up in the same place. there are solid reasons to think about wharton, but rarely would i ever describe it as leaps and bounds above columbia. why? let’s just expand our scale a bit, in the pantheon of universities, columbia and upenn have more in common and are closer in terms of opportunities than let’s say columbia is to lehigh or the like. differences are marginal.</p>

<p>in the world of competition we like to parse differences, and certainly i wont deny wharton’s standing (though i think probably we could veer toward hyperbole in praising it, as recent surveys show, it is not the top dog for ugrad biz no mo, now doesn’t mean it isn’t fantastic, but let’s not flame for the sake of it).</p>

<p>in the end, i am happy you wrote 10 posts about wharton myths, as if the best known biz school needed it. but in many ways, you could replace what you wrote there with another school, hell with penn proper and similar questions abound - am i stuck in one discipline, what are the possible outcomes, how do i compare in getting X job. it is not specifically about why wharton is good, but it is very defensive sounding.</p>

<p>the ultimate factor that you leave out…the student him or herself. they are the ones that really get the job, the university is just the catalyst for it. if you aren’t smart, if you don’t work hard, and if you aren’t in the environment that makes you feel comfortable to work hard, it doesn’t matter. you’re smart, you got into wharton obviously, and if you keep it up, you’ll get a great job - in part because firms will recruit you for being at wharton, but perhaps most obviously because you got the job.</p>

<p>i like columbia for the ‘soft’ reasons, and that’s what i hope to pass along to the reader. it is the culture it has, it is the sense of adventure it instills, these are qualities that enhance your experience not just today, but forever. because ultimately the ‘hard’ reasons, the outcomes that each offer are marginally different in the grand scheme of things. and i hope to emphasize that if a student arrives at columbia and feels at home in this unique environment - a place that pushes you and yet gives you home, gives you focus and opportunity. if they like it, they’ll thrive, go on and make tons of money doing something hopefully that is not that soulless, and enjoy the perspective that their ugrad years provided.</p>

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<p>If, by don’t ■■■■■ and don’t flame, you mean don’t challenge my ludicrous claims, I apologize, but I cannot do that. All I did was post a link (on a Columbia vs Wharton thread, no less) that combine posts I had already made on the topic in one place, that’s it. There is nothing “■■■■■■■■” or “flaming” about that. </p>

<p>Firstly, I never attacked Columbia, so I don’t see why you are being so defensive. I posted a thread that was looking to clear up some misconceptions that have developed about Wharton. Sure, Columbia is good for certain kinds of kids and it provides superb opportunities for them. I absolutely acknowledge that, Columbia was among my favorite schools. All I was saying was that, given the OPs interests, Wharton would probably suit her better. There is nothing wrong with pointing that out. You’ve done the very same thing for Columbia; it’s a bit hypocritical of you to chastise me for that then, no? </p>

<p>You say that Columbia has things that Wharton doesn’t or couldn’t offer the OP. That’s a bold claim, and yet you fail to mention a single thing. If you go to the page I posted, I clearly show what Wharton has to offer. Of course both Penn and Columbia have many things that make each school unique. Of course Columbia is a wonderful school. Of course the OP should strongly consider it. All I was saying was that, in my opinion, (and I am allowed to have an opinion you know), Wharton would suit her better. The decision, ultimately, is entirely up to her. </p>

<p>Furthermore, absolutely no one gives credibility to the Business Week rankings you are refereeing to. The fact that you referenced is laughable, it just shows that you know nothing about the business world. Business week sells magazines by feeding that crap to people who do not know better, people like you. That same ranking also says that Notre Dame and UVA are better than MIT, obviously that is a joke. Wharton is the best undergraduate business school around, no serious person in the industry would question that. But, the facts aside, if it pleases you, do continue to wallow in your own ignorance. </p>

<p>I absolutely did not get what your fourth paragraph was all about, perhaps you should rephrase it. Actually don’t, it probably still wouldn’t make any sense. </p>

<p>I agree that the impetus is one the student to perform. Never did I claim that a lazy Whartonite would get a job over a hardworking Columbian. Nowhere did I claim that personal ability does not mean anything. And, in previous posts, I have mentioned that in the end it all depends on the student. </p>

<p>I will say, however, that Wharton helps shape you into the type of student who will do well. You are surrounded by some of the brightest minds in the country, many of whom have similar interests. You collaborate, compete, discuss, and are driven by your peers. Wharton provides you with an environment wherein you are better able to do that. The classes you take at Wharton are geared towards molding the type of person who will succeed in the business world; I was just pointing that out to the OP. </p>

<p>Lastly, the point of the thread was to demonstrate rumors about Wharton that were false. I attempted to provide a place where the OP and others can see the truth as is and go onto make an informed decision. She may very well go onto pick Columbia, good for her it is a wonderful school, but I will be satisfied knowing that she did so knowing the full facts of the decision she was about to make. </p>

<p>I did talk about how the culture at Wharton, the benefits of a Wharton education, and many other things on that thread. On other threads, where it was appropriate, I discussed Penn’s student life and the social opportunities at the school - such as Spring Fling. I talked about Whartonite’s personalities, Penn’s liberal arts offerings, and numerous other ‘soft’ factors that you are referencing. That’s all there is to it. That’s not ■■■■■■■■ my friend, that’s honesty. That’s being helpful. That’s showing school spirit. Call it what you will, I’ll continue doing it. You’ve obviously wildly misconstrued what I was trying to do here.</p>

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<p>well considering that there are numerous ‘spaces’ for wharton iconoclasm, coming on the columbia board to spew your wharton pride is well - unnecessary and ■■■■■■■■.</p>

<p>lastly, i have a huge body of statements on here that i need not repeat that delineate what makes columbia unique, but then again, didn’t i come forth with a thesis in the first paragraph only to make good on it in the last? gosh how textbook english class. </p>

<p>and i think we can speak facts - perhaps we could say that wharton has the best ‘outcomes’ of any business school in the country, i think you’re hard pressed to prove with measures (thus businessweek fills the space with their arbitrary assessment) that it is the best business school. i referenced the bweek for fun, but i guess you took it harshly, in the end i think it is important to remember that it is hard to say a school is ultimately, unabashedly the best - i could throw in a million variables that could disspell this truth, or subjectivize the situation that renders such a statement hyperbolic and self-serving.</p>

<p>but that is minor, in the end i’d presume we agree on a lot of things, but perhaps we should agree on one more - it lacks tact when you come on another board to laud your own school. PM the kid, say hey - i have an alternate perspective, or better yet, wait for the kid to post on your board, if he/she are really interested in wharton or need questions answered, let him/her find you.</p>

<p>and in the end i hope you don’t continue doing it, you don’t see me on the upenn board.</p>

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<p>I see your point, it’s valid, but I am going to have to respectfully disagree. </p>

<p>I did not write all of this solely for the benefit of the OP, though that was a part of it. Many other prospective kids could come across this thread; my posts provide a useful resource to them to make that decision. Now, since Wharton was specifically mentioned in this thread, I feel perfectly entitled to write in it. If we each stuck to our own threads, all she would get is two biased opinions, this was she gets to see us our arguments clash which is infinitely more useful to her. Let us not pretend that everyone does not write on the threads of other people’s boards, it happens all the time and it is absolutely natural when your school in brought up. </p>

<p>Now, onto the infamous business week rankings. Firstly, most of the data business week posts is straight up inaccurate - Wharton does not release its information to business week. In fact, Harvard felt that business week’s rankings were so dishonest and profit- motivated, that they two with-held information from business week for their graduate school rankings (which are equally ridiculous - look at how low Stanford is placed, anyone in the business world would laugh at that). Wharton has the best finance professors and is the best in many fields in the world, the smartest business students, it is the most selective undergraduate business program (in general, it is essentially as selective as Harvard), it has far better facilities than most school. By any metric you, Wharton should and does come out on top. If you look at the US News rankings (where Wharton has been the sole number one school for as long as the ranking has existed) the schools that are rated No.1 and 2 in business week rate 23rd and 6th respectively. As I said, Wharton stands alone and is unambiguously the best (after all Wharton was the world’s first collegiate school of business). You would you trust to rate business schools? People that work on the street, or reporters that know absolutely nothing about the industry and come up rankings so ridiculous that the two most influential schools withdrew their support from it? Stop referencing this ranking, I feel embarrassed for you. That’s like me citing the shsihdsifhs rankings that say Harvard is the 120th best college in the world and say, “oh look, Harvard is not the best college anymore!” Nonsense. It would infuriate you if I said US News ranks Penn above Columbia, and therefore Penn must be better than Columbia. See, you’re playing with a double edged sword, I’d be careful if I were you (particularly since US News is far more reliable and respected than Business week). To use your own words, self-serving is exactly what these rankings are, because it increases Business week’s numbers because they are so shocking, that is more important to them than truth. Be very careful with rankings; ask people who know what they are talking about what they think. </p>

<p>I may not see you on the Upenn board, but I do see a whole lot of other Columbians there. This really is a two way street. If you’d like an official invitation to post on the Upenn board, then you’ve just been invited. </p>

<p>I don’t mean to ramble on, I think I have made most of my points clear already so I have little reason to post here much more; I will do so if I deem it necessary though.</p>

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<p>As a 30-year veteran of the business world, I still don’t get why anyone would want to study “business” as a primary undergraduate focus. I may be a dinosaur, but very few of the folks I’ve dealt with in my career (except for accountants) studied business as undergraduates. MANY received MBAs, after enjoying their undergraduate years as liberal arts majors, followed by a couple of years in the work force. I firmly believe that a broad-based, liberal arts undergraduate education is the appropriate springboard for a career in business, and for life in general. For those with my views, Columbia is the easy choice.</p>

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<p>^ to make money. fast. right out of college.</p>

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<p>lol, kafka cracked.</p>

<p>dude that is some post. “i referenced the bweek for fun,” was lost on you.</p>

<p>i wont go off on how naive it is to say one school is the best; it is probably why new rankings like the NRC (if it ever comes out) are tiering because in reality experiences can be comparable. it takes an incredible amount of brashness to even say harvard is the best, when as a composite experience it might not be right for everyone. the best is such a normative decision, something that shouldn’t be taken lightly, but rankings do, and you clearly buy into them (or at least the ones that serve your cause). </p>

<p>wharton is a fine school, it is one of the best.</p>

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<p>If the reason for attending undergraduate business school is to make money, fast, right out of college, I would not want to spend four years with undergraduate business school students as my classmates.</p>

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<p>^^I would agree with pbr, which is why I’ve decided to narrow it down to schools without undergrad business programs, even though I got accepted into good ones. I want a broader liberal arts curriculum and less pre-prof and cutthroat. </p>

<p>Even though W recruiting may be marginally better, you’ll be competing with all your fellow W classmates for the same exact jobs, which makes for an intense and stressful environment, a situation that I wouldn’t want to be in for four years! I would go to Columbia, enjoy your college experience, and get just about the same career opps as you would at W if you do equally well. (Columbia has the city, and I hear that recruiting is very, very strong here too).</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>Unfortunately, the top finance firms do not.</p>

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<p>awped, have you interviewed for a top bank firm before?</p>

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<p>I’m <em>supposed</em> to be studying for a midterm on Tuesday, so I can’t really write all the I want to write… but I did just want to say that I’m an Econ (Econ/PoliSci, actually) major at Columbia, and the Econ department here is FANTASTIC. I’ve taken several econ classes now, and have loved every single one of them. The faculty is incredible, and they really care about what they’re doing. </p>

<p>With that in mind, though, I’m sure UPenn has an incredible program as well. I do agree with pbr, however - I really don’t like the idea of an undergraduate business program. If you want to work with one of the big financial companies, I would say get an Econ (or Finance if the school you choose has one) degree, work a couple of years, and get an MBA regardless of which undergraduate school you go to. Saying that, may of my peers have just completed the big financial firm internship application process, and I have to say that they didn’t feel like they had a disadvantage at all when applying for internships. I think our numbers are a bit lower than other schools because students at Columbia, in my experience, tend to seek out more obscure, interest-specific internships. Those that wanted internships at big firms, however, seemed like they had a fair chance.</p>

<p>Overall, I think you just need to decide which school you like better - they’ll both equip you well for whatever career you want (which may well not by finance). </p>

<p>Hope to see you at Columbia :-)</p>