Columbia's international reputation...

<p>Texassoccer, which degree would serve you better for what you want to do...consulting, finance,..... that degree is called an MBA. If you are fascinated with Europe's regional economy, by all means do study that area. if you are interested in East Asia, study East Asia. I would not study the area that is marketable at the moment because that can change. I would rather hire an European economy specialist who has published a brilliant paper or done something brilliant visa vis the European economy in my East Asian group than a mediocre East Asian specialist. Having made it to Dartmouth and columbia you have the smarts to change from Russian studies to Middle Eastern studies if the cold war waned on your watch and the war on terror waxed.</p>

<p>Luck, uncertainty and charm play a more important part in human affairs than we credit. So, for the next 4 years choose an area you think you would enjoy. If you had to spend the next 4 years in Europe or in Asia, which would you choose? Unless of course you have definite long-term goals toward one of these.</p>

<p>Visit Dartmouth, visit columbia and make your decision on comfort, feel, etc rather than on name recognition. Assess the reputation of the two departments, their placements, the no of grads who go into the foreign service or win churchill fellowships or whatever is the "in" thing in area studies. Which school you went to, as regards name recognition, makes for the first 2 seconds of any conversation.</p>

<p>ramaswami, </p>

<p>so you would hire an MA in European Studies over an MA in East Asian Studies? Even though they both studied the political economies of each respective region? If you don't mind me asking, what line of work are you in?</p>

<p>Also, I think you're right. I would rather be in Europe and work in Europe, unless I could find a job that worked with European companies in America, Asia, or Latin America. But for the most part I am looking for European work. I find Dartmouth's atmosphere to be more charming and the school to be close knit, yet it's department is lacking. Columbia, while more intimidating, offer a lot more. If I just pull up my boot straps and work hard I bet that the payoff would be a lot better.</p>

<p>Texassoccer, I am a clinical psychologist, but not a good one, so don't consult me!! Seriously, when the Times of London asked Bertrand Russell who among his students /disciples he wanted to write his obit, Russell is said to have remarked, "I would rather have my brightest critic write my obit than my follower". His point, perhaps, that his reputation was safer with a bright critic than with someone dumb enough to be his disciple!!</p>

<p>In that vein, yes, if I were hiring I would hire a scintillating area specialist who had submitted groundbreaking work on the Tamil Tigers to head my Scandinavian research unit but then I am a maverick.</p>

<p>Go for the charm. the close-knit Dartmouth community may change you in ways you cannot anticipate yet. College is for exploring the continent called your mind as you discover it in its relationship with the world and it is best explored in a small academic community. The purpose of an education is to sharpen your intellect, not to master specific areas, later you can stock your mind with enough wonderful stuff to make yourself your most interesting companion. Aristotle recognized this early on when he preferred the education of the generalist who, though not a subject matter specialist, knew enough about reasoning to detect the falsity of any subject.</p>

<p>And remember, the only approximation to Plato's Academy was the Copenhagen group under Bohr, and it never exceeded fifty.</p>

<p>Let your future employers, who may be ignorant of Dartmouth, marvel at your talent and discover the Dartmouth that made you rather than marvel at the mention of your columbia pedigree and fail to discover your talent. </p>

<p>Mine will be an iconoclastic view.</p>

<p>texassoccer, forgot to clarify: some on CC may say I offer a false choice, that is, the choice is not between a second rate Asian region scholar and first rate European scholar but maybe between first rate in both areas. My point was simply this: if you love european studies, but opt for East Asian studies due to marketability, then your work would be less brilliant than it would have been if you had stuck to your passion and hence a brilliant you would have been more marketable than an ordinary you.</p>

<p>Yes, you're right, Columbia is more well-known in Asian than in Europe, but that's because Asian people care a lot about prestige. Europe is dominated by Oxbridge, but for the type of job you're looking at, people will know about Columbia. And know, HYPS are seen as the absolute top pretty much everywhere, even in Asia. But the nice thing is, there are plenty of spots to fill.</p>

<p>In general--HYPS are the most well-known schools in the world. Harvard reigns supreme and Stanford could probably place second. Columbia, while well-known is not in the same league as those four, but is definitely up there. I recently asked an educated russian women what universities from America she knew, she said Harvard and Stanford and thats it. Its one person, but I am just giving you an idea. Now, for any profressional job internationally, any Ivy league school and Mit will be known and respected so in that case its all irrelevant.</p>

<p>So would going from Harvard to Columbia be viewed as a step down?</p>

<p>not necessarily. Depends on why you are going in that direction. At the level of the Shanghai top 10 rankings, the differences are infinitesimal.</p>

<p>Like I said, it's just for an MA.</p>

<p>Harvard would probably have more cachet. Other things being equal I would go to Harvard.</p>

<p>Yeah, but Columbia has highly ranked European and Asian Studies programs. Ofcourse, Harvard would carry more weight and seal the deal, but my first degree was an AB Economics from Harvard (Thats why I asked if it would be taking a step downward). My GPA was around a 3.4 and Harvard's programs look for 3.7-8 and significant work experience. I was lucky to land Columbia and Dartmouth,so I wouldn't want to let either go.</p>

<p>texassoccer, so I take it you do not have admission into Harvard's MA, it is just between Columbia and Dartmouth, right? Between Harvard and any other, I would go with Harvard. Between Dartmouth and Columbia I would go with Columbia. I know I did suggest charm of Dartmouth earlier but I had not read your post carefully, thought it was for undergrad.</p>

<p>For grad work, Columbia beats Dartmouth. End of story.</p>

<p>besides, technically, dartmouth isn't even supposed to HAVE grad schools - it refers to itself as a college! I realize they have a med school and hospital up there and various PhD programs, but you really can't assume that those are the central focus of the Dartmouth administration.</p>

<p>I don't understand this "intimidating" thing you have in your head about Columbia. Columbia is not an intimidating place if you're bright, engaging and ready to challenge yourself, your peers and your professors. If you're none of the above, no top school--Darthmouth, Harvard, Columbia, would be right for you.
Columbia's campus is a bubble, and you have all the intellectual and cultural wealth of New York City at your feet. Given the fields that you're considering, it would be silly to give that up because you think the environment is 'intimidating'. Visit the campus, as ramaswami suggested, you'll see how wrong you are.</p>

<p>Truth is, as long as you have Harvard on your resume (whether as a bachelor's or masters) you're pretty much set. You moving from H to Columbia for your masters is not a step down, reputation wise. It's simply you going to another Ivy League college and extending your horizon. You Harvard basis stands...and so does its "ooh" factor.</p>

<p>undisclosed put it beautifully. Also, texas, I thought you were applying undergrad so did not read too much meaning into the intimidating atmosphere reaction of yours. I am a helicopter Asian parent but had no hesitation in sending my son to Columbia for undergrad: I will try to cover his blind spots but he shall live his life. You, a grad student, you must want Columbia. Why go to Dartmouth, if you are so inclined I suggest the Trappist monastery at Cluny in France, more comforting than Dartmouth and in the heart of Europe and in its library you will learn more about Europe than anywhere else. Just being humorous.</p>

<p>Thanks for all of the info guys! I am pretty much decided on Columbia and I'm glad that you guys think its the better choice. </p>

<p>In regards to what I am studying though. What fields should I pursue with an MA in Modern European Studies? I will be taking courses at the Business school and SIPA (School for International Public Affairs). I hope to gear my thesis in the political economy of Europe or some economic development topic of the EU. </p>

<p>Where would this degree open doors career-wise? I know what I was thinking of going for but I don't want to be too naive about it.</p>

<p>It could open up ops in international law, provided you get a JD after, business, research (World Bank, UN, Peace Corp)--I think it all depends how you pitch it. Frankly, the way the world functions right now, you could be working in Asia as an expert on European policy and economics. Or the Middle East. You'll be fine, concentrate on doing well and the rest will follow.</p>

<p>What were you thinking of doing?</p>

<p>
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What were you thinking of doing?

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</p>

<p>Pretty much everything you listed minus peace corp. My internships were in finance back in undergrad.</p>

<p>So New York is perfect for you then</p>

<p>World leader's forum--that's one unbelievable conference Columbia has.</p>