Column written by Princeton student censored by school newspaper

Parent Cafe
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<p>I recently got back from a trip to the States during which I spent five days living with D2 in her dorm room at Princeton. It was mostly during her fall break (not Thanksgiving) so her roommate was only there on the last night. Although most students had gone home for the break, there were still quite a few on campus for sports and other activities. My sophomore D has never shared this writer’s impression of Princeton. She feels students in general are very nice and helpful and is quite happy there. I certainly felt students were friendly in the many encounters I had across campus with D’s acquaintances. Of course, there are all kinds of personalities, but to suggest that Princeton has a greater share of “brats” or snobs than any other private university, many of which are much more difficult to afford, is ridiculous. I think the writer suffers from what a lot of college students do: failed expectations. College is not high school and the social networks that exist are much more diffuse and complex. If you arrive expecting to recreate the “camaraderie” of a small high school, at a much larger college where students are more diverse, self-sufficient by necessity, and have more responsibilities, you are going to be let down.</p>

<p>Some clarifications: Princeton does have a residential college system in which freshman are randomly assigned to one of six for at least the first two years. This system was solidified several years back, taking a page from Harvard and Yale’s house/college models. Upperclassmen, almost all of whom live on campus, have a variety of housing options from apartment-style with kitchens and traditional dorms to remaining in one of the four-year colleges. A tiny fraction of students live at the Eating Clubs as officers.</p>

<p>There have been several threads discussing the differences between Eating Clubs and Greek organizations. Obviously, there are many similarities but I would reiterate that a huge difference is that the Eating Clubs are coed and therefore don’t give rise to some of the characteristics that tend to be associated with all-male or all-female groups, especially when these are residential. My D is on the fence about wanting to join an Eating Club but she has attended plenty of parties there since day one as it is quite easy to get a pass to most of them.</p>

<p>And we also did not leave with a particularly good impression when we first visited the campus, which I wrote more about in a recent post on the Princeton forum. Thankfully, my daughter knew enough to give a superficial encounter the consideration it was worth and chose the school based on other factors.</p>

<p>Obviously, impressions are always in the eye of the beholder and my evidence is just as anecdotal at the writer’s or anyone else’s who has actually been there. It is certainly a step up from all these posters talking about the opinions of “people they knew”. I would go back to what is by many considered a good measure of overall student satisfaction–the alumni giving rate:</p>

<p>Institution
Alumni Giving Rate 2009
Princeton University 60%
University of Southern California 43%
Yale University 38%
Duke University 38%
Harvard University 37%
Brown University 37%
University of Pennsylvania 37%
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 36%
Emory University 36%
California Institute of Technology 35%
Stanford University 34%
Columbia University In The City of New York 34%
Rice University 33%
Johns Hopkins University 33%
University of Chicago 32%
Cornell University 31%
Washington University In St Louis 31%
Northwestern University 31%
Brandeis University 30%</p>

<p>[University</a> Planning & Analysis](<a href=“http://www2.acs.ncsu.edu/upa/peers/current/research_intensive/alumgiv.htm]University”>http://www2.acs.ncsu.edu/upa/peers/current/research_intensive/alumgiv.htm)</p>

<p>I don’t know if this is typical for all schools, but the giving rate was even higher for recent grads:</p>

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<p><a href=“http://giving.princeton.edu/ag/agnews/ag2010.xml[/url]”>http://giving.princeton.edu/ag/agnews/ag2010.xml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>And given that some 60% of students receive financial aid, I don’t think the high rate of giving can be attributed to family wealth.</p>

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<p>I thought it wold be useful to read some other opinion pieces that passed muster with The Daily Princetonian and based on that admittedly random selection, I don’t think quality of writing was an issue; none of these people are F. Scott Fitzgerald. The real reason, I suspect, had to do with attempting to protect the writer from herself: a freshman having trouble making friends shouldn’t be blasting her fellow students (and using her own name to do it) with three-quarters of the year left to go. </p>

<p>For the sake of comparison:
[Greek</a> love? - The Daily Princetonian](<a href=“http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2011/12/06/29559/]Greek”>http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2011/12/06/29559/)</p>

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<p>Maybe only some people on campus?</p>

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<p>It is my understanding that the Daily Princetonian generally prints opinion pieces by members of its staff (but I’d be happy to be corrected by someone more knowledgeable–I was told this by someone who used to work on the paper a while ago) and that the standard for guest columnists is quite high (i.e., faculty members, exceptional news interest). Since the OP is not a Prince staff member, that might help explain the reason her piece was not used.</p>

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<p>Yes, but do you know what all of these people were like after they graduated? There was mention of the transformative nature of these schools…</p>

<p>The writer is specifically addressing her initial encounters with fellow students as a newbie freshman, in situations where it was known to the rude students that she was new. Wouldn’t that be the situation in which most polite people would make a special effort to be pleasant and welcoming?</p>

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<p>Oh, come on, Bay. Do you really think any of these schools changes the personalities and level of consideration in their students? I think DonnaL was being a little tongue in cheek when she was suggesting Harvard kids were thought to be arrogant and snobby compared to Yale students.</p>

<p>You have/had a kid at each of those schools and you seem to be determined to present Princeton students as somehow more arrogant than H and Y kids --“The other 3 acquired a verbal affectation that supports the P rep (think Thurston Howell III). It was almost funny.”</p>

<p>I call b.s.</p>

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<p>Nope, that is your defensive reaction. I haven’t written anything about my impressions/knowledge of H or Y kids. Why would that matter anyway? The issue is whether the writer’s experience * at Princeton* has any basis in fact. Even if Y and H have more arrogant, snobby students than Princeton, it doesn’t change anything with regard to the accuracy of the writer’s experience or the atmosphere on her own campus.</p>

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<p>The student who was working at orientation when the freshman arrived was being “snobby” on the basis of what? Number of years completed at Princeton vs. the incoming students?</p>

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<p>^She was probably from a posh suburb of Nevada where they look down upon the socially inferior Vegas residents. ;)</p>

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<p>I have no doubt that the writer believes that her experience has a basis in fact. However, we know nothing about the writer to put her experience in context–maybe she’s super sensitive, maybe she had asked the TA a number of questions first and the TA was annoyed at that point, maybe she invades personal space, maybe she’s one of those determinedly cheerful individuals who can be annoying etc.</p>

<p>Moreover, even if the kids she encountered were rude, it seems a little ridiculous to use this article to suggest or confirm that Princeton has “issues different from other similar schools” or
that kids arrive at Princeton as perfectly pleasant people, but due to the “transformative nature” of the school, turn into unfriendly snobs.</p>

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<p>Oh really, then how should we interpret this:</p>

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<p>and </p>

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<p>You are clearly suggesting from these statements that Princeton students are notably different as a whole than kids from other top schools including H and Y, whether you call it “hearsay” or not–if you are not making that point, as midlatmom said, why would you bother to post.</p>

<p>Defensive? Yes, maybe. But I try to never denigrate other schools on these forums and it bothers me when people deliberately perpetuate stereotypes for less than disinterested motives.</p>

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<p>Most of this amounts to quibbling. Can anyone imagine the things being said about Princeton students being said about those from Berea?</p>

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<p>Doesn’t adding that she “got accepted into MIT, Stanford, and Princeton” seem a little snobbish? She seems a bit entitled, as if she’s gracing Princeton with her presence.</p>

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<p>Why are some of us getting so defensive? Because our experience with the school, either directly or through our children has been very different from what has been written by some in this thread, mostly those without any direct experience with the University.</p>

<p>And because of our positive experiences with the University we do not want readers to get a misinformed view of the school. Pretty simple.</p>

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<p>TBH I expected a better written article coming from a Princeton student…</p>

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<p>Wildwood,
I feel that you are twisting and stretching things I wrote to turn them into some scathing, libelous criticism of Princeton. Princeton is one of the top universities in the world! If my next child were to be admitted, I would be deliriously thrilled!!! (But also hopeful that the students would be nice to him once he got there).</p>

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<p>Bay - I thought all your kids are in college already! Did you adopt a son?</p>

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<p>^Ha ha, nope, but he is not in college yet, so there is not much to share with regard to him.</p>

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<p>Yes; thank you. It was intended (almost!) entirely as a joke, based upon the way that when I was at Yale, everyone would put down Harvard and its students, and was convinced that people at Harvard were not only arrogant but were all unhappy. Nobody saw Princeton as a “rival,” so nobody bothered putting it down.</p>

<p>From what my son tells me, the only way in which students at the University of Chicago discuss the Ivy League is that they believe that they work much harder than kids at Ivy League schools, who are a bunch of slackers by comparison.</p>

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<p>Not meaning to dominate this conversation, but I want to add that I am surprised at the perceived sensitivity over any negative commentary about Princeton. From where our family sits, the criticism, stereotyping, negativity about Harvard is almost unrelenting. There is certainly some truth to some of it, but we have learned to address any misconceptions and then move on. There is no point in taking it personally or defensively.</p>