Combined US News Rankings - National Universities and Liberal Arts Colleges

<p>here’s a combined ranking (Nationals & LACs) I did in 2009 mimicking part of the USNews method on Selectivity.
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/687793-selectivity-ranking-national-us-lacs-combined-usnews-method.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/687793-selectivity-ranking-national-us-lacs-combined-usnews-method.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Results for the Top 25 (see details in the linked thread, including the next 50 ranked):
Top 25</p>

<p>1 Cal Tech
2 Yale
3 Harvard
4 MIT
5 Princeton
6 Columbia
7 Washington U
8 Harvey Mudd
9 Penn
10 Swarthmore
11 Stanford
12 Dartmouth
13 Brown
14 Pomona
15 Duke
16 Williams
17 Amherst
18 Northwestern
19 Georgetown
20 Cornell
21 Notre Dame
22 Claremont McK
23 Rice
24 Haverford
25 ChicagO</p>

<p>I welcome someone to rerun this analysis with the latest USNews data. Perhaps I’ll do so sometime over the holidays.</p>

<p>The overall scores are different due to different groupings. LOL. Somebody didn’t take statistics. This thread is all sorts of fail.</p>

<p>You actually don’t need to take any statistics class to notice that the scores are in different groupings since it has nothing to do with statistics. And by the way, I’ve taken plenty of stats courses. It was actually a major criticism I was going to bring up with this ranking myself but wanted to hear other people’s comments first.</p>

<p>After determining the weighted score of each school, US News gives the top school a score of 100, and the other schools are calculated as a proportion of that top score.</p>

<p>If you combined the lists, Harvard and Princeton would still likely be the top schools, with Williams, the top LAC, having an estimated score of 95 (this is somewhat arbitrary and there is probably a better way to determine the exact score but I’m trying to simplify it). You could then adjust each liberal arts college’s overall score by subtracting 5% so that it fits the university scale. Again, this is somewhat simplifying it but gets close enough to the right numbers if US News decided to combine lists, especially when you consider that they round to the nearest whole number.</p>

<p>Does this sound right? Any other suggestions for adjusting the overall score? Papa Chicken’s list looks interesting (and I’d be curious to see the data for 2013) but seems a lot more time intensive.</p>

<p>LOL, you bring up the major problem with your approach…and then continue to operate without addressing the problem. Haha. No, that doesn’t sound right. </p>

<p>You have to use the same matrix of variable for each school in order to recalculate the combined group. Feel free to create a matrix with the same variables and recalculate if you like. Subtracting 5% isn’t going to make a difference. </p>

<p>Additionally, you run into the problem of peer reputation. A peer repuation for a liberal arts school compares that school to other liberal arts schools. You’d have to re-ask the question as a single sample group and then use those scores. </p>

<p>In sum, you are taking on a project that is much more difficult than you initially thought, although well intentioned.</p>

<p>gnatcire,
I’m actually sympathetic with your project of doing a combined research university/LAC ranking based on US News methodology. Informative is absolutely correct that the PA scores aren’t comparable or interchangeable, because they’re based on separate peer group surveys. There’s really no way around that problem, except to do your own combined PA survey which would be prohibitively time-consuming and expensive. </p>

<p>Apart from that complication, most of the data are comparable across the two data sets. What you’d need to do is rank order all the schools (LACs plus research universities) on each element in the US News rating, then assign raw scores to each of those elements based on the weights US News assigns to each category.</p>

<p>Here are the elements that make up the US News ranking, and a comparison of Williams with Princeton and Yale for each category for which data are readily accessible. You’ll quickly see why your initial placement of Williams as tied with Princeton and just ahead of Yale is way off, once you get into the data.</p>

<p><a href=“weight”>B</a> Element / Williams / Princeton / Yale**</p>

<p>(15%) PA score 4.6 / 4.8 / 4.8
(7.5%) HS counselor score 4.6 / 4.9 / 4.9
(1.5%) Admit rate 17.3% / 8.5% / 7.7%
(6%) % in top 10% of HS class 91% / 93% / 97%
(7.5%) SAT CR+M 1310-1530 / 1410-1590 / 1400-1590
(7%) Faculty compensation n/a
(3%) Faculty w/ top terminal degree 96% / 93% / 93%
(1%) % faculty full-time 93.1% / 92.0% / 99.8%
(1%) S/F ratio 7:1 / 6:1 / 5:1
(6%) Class size <20 70.8% / 70.6% / 77.2%
(2%) Class size 50+ 4% / 11% / 6%
(16%) Ave grad rate 95% / 96% / 97%
(4%) Ave freshman retention rate 97% / 98% / 99%
(10%) Financial resources per student n/a
(5%) Ave alumni giving rate 58% / 63% / 37%
(7.5%) Grad rate performance +1 / +1 / +1</p>

<p>As you can see, Williams trails Princeton and Yale in most categories, including most of those that carry the most weight in the US News ranking. More importantly, many other research universities also lead Williams in most of these categories:</p>

<p>Fourteen research universities have a lower admit rate than Williams (1.5%).</p>

<p>About a dozen or so research universities have higher median SAT scores than Williams (7.5%).</p>

<p>Seven research universities have a higher graduation rate than Williams; another two are tied with Williams (16%).</p>

<p>Twelve research universities have a higher freshman retention rate than Williams; another 13 are tied. with Williams (4%)</p>

<p>Seven research universities have a higher percentage of classes with <20 students than Williams (6%).</p>

<p>PA scores aren’t commensurate, but assuming that problem away, six research universities have higher PA scores than Williams, and another 6 are tied with it.</p>

<p>Sixteen research universities have higher HS Counselor ratings than Williams, and another 5 are tied with it.</p>

<p>We have no transparency on the financial resources per student category.</p>

<p>We also don’t have transparency in the US News data on faculty compensation, but generally faculty salaries at LACs are substantially lower lower than at research universities. According to the AAUP, at Princeton the average assistant professor makes $94.200, the average associate professor makes $123,700, and the average full professor makes $193,800. At Yale, the average assistant professor makes $89,700, the average associate professor makes $108,600, and the average full professor makes $180,400. At Williams, the average assistant professor makes $76,500, the average associate professor makes $87,000, and the average full professor makes $135,100. So average faculty salaries at Williams are $13,000 to $35,000 lower than at Yale, depending on the level, and $18,000 to $58,000 lower than at Princeton. Even at the #29-ranked research university, the University of Michigan, average faculty salaries are well above the Williams mark, at $85,800 for assistant professors, $98,200 for associate professors, and $148,800 for full professors, or $9,000 to $13,000 higher, on average, depending on faculty rank. Based on that limited data, we can expect Williams to rank perhaps somewhere around #50, possibly lower, in faculty compensation—a factor that counts for 7% in the overall US News ranking. </p>

<p>Given all that, it’s hard to see how Williams could come in higher than about #12 or so in a combined LAC-research university ranking, and even that might be generous.</p>

<p>Very informative, thoughtful, and interesting analysis bclintonk. You’re right in that your method is probably the best way of comparing LACs. PAs aren’t directly comparable, but I don’t think they would be too different if universities and LACs also assessed each other. High school counselors are going to be the same for both, and I don’t forsee universities and LACs rating each other extremely different from each other, but that is just my guess.</p>

<p>I definitely think HYP are always going to be on the top for these rankings, especially because the methodology is focused on what they excel in. But I think comparing most other top institutions to them would probably show a similar analysis, although I don’t have my most recent US News on me to really check, as I am currently on vacation for the next week. But I do think your assessment of Williams coming around 12 is probably pretty accurate.</p>