<p>Has anyone on this forum discussed the plight of Commander Kirk Lippold, a USNA graduate (1981) who is now being denied promotion because he commanded the USS Cole when it was attacked? There was an article on the front page of today's Sacramento Bee - "Terror attack has scuttled a Navy career". I did a little Internet research and found out his USNA classmates are rallying for him. They have a site that describes their efforts to lobby the Senate for his exoneration. They are asking people to write letters on his behalf. </p>
<p>He seems to have acted honorably during the attack and after.</p>
<p>Parallels are being drawn between him and Cmdr. McVay of the illfated Indianapolis in WWII. </p>
<p>Just thought the service academy community should know about this. I didn't have any idea about it until now.</p>
<p>wow...before I even read the line beginning with "parallels", I thought of that incident.</p>
<p>For those of you who don't know who Cmdr. McVay was, he commanded the USS Indianapolis, the ship that brought the components of the first bomb to the Pacific theatre. After delivering the goods, it was sunk by a Japanese submarine. The crew went in the drink, and wasn't rescued for 6 days, all the while suffering dehydration, the pacific sun, and relentless shark attacks.</p>
<p>McVay was later court-martialed...the only one to be so due to enemy actions. Apparently he ceased zig-zagging (a simple maneuver to avoid torpedoes) when he was in a known danger zone.</p>
<p>I understand that is the way it is but I still think it is laudable that people who know he acted heroically in the face of danger are rallying on his behalf - and I intend to also. </p>
<p>The USS Indianpolis sailers fought diligently for their Commander's exoneration for 56 years. And they won it. Sometimes the right thing does happen.</p>
<p>He actually did get a medal - for spending 3 weeks night and day fighting with his crew to keep the ship afloat. </p>
<p>And it's interesting about your point, having been in the Navy (which I haven't). The article references a "Navy tradition of punishing any ship commander who hazards his vessel" and quotes a retired admiral as saying promotion is based on having a successful tour. Period. I guess you have to be in that culture to appreciate such a tradition. You'd think it would be the opposite - if you have experienced unprovoked action and heroically dealt with it, that alone would be grounds for promotion.</p>
<p>Those of us about to have our sons and daughters enter this culture - especially those of us who haven't lived in it - want to believe it is a fair, just and idealistic culture that rewards heroism, courage and loyalty. I can only hope incidents like this are in the minority. Fortunately, this one is being exposed and we the public can express our views about it.</p>
<p>Ah, madam! I regret to have to inform you that it is most often NOT fair.</p>
<p>The history books are chock full of stories of Commanding Officers being relieved of duty and having their careers destroyed for mishaps in their commands that were beyond their control. </p>
<p>Groundings and collisions because the watchstanders were sloppy, accidents because some seaman someplace blew off a known requirement, etc. It always lands upon the Captain, because he IS THE CAPTAIN.</p>
<p>It's a tradition that goes way, way back, and has consumed more than one good and decent man. I wish it were different, but that's the way it is. The exceptions to the rule are extremely few and VERY far between.</p>
<p>I was unaware of the medal. It saddens me that the apparent contradiction between the medal and the refusal to promote doesn't surprise me at all. I sincerely hope that this will turn and become one of the exceptions, but I won't hold my breath.</p>
<p>Welcome to the darker side of the Naval Service. :(</p>
<p>Yes sir, I get it. It's funny how some of us in civilian life are so idealistic about the military tradition. Too many hours watching the History Channel I guess!</p>
<p>I know exactly what you mean about the idealism. I'm all to familiar with it.</p>
<p>I used to watch documentaries about the Navy in awe. Now, I watch them and enjoy them, but I watch them with a bit of sadness, because it's not always as cool as they portray it. That said, my career was pretty damned boring, so others will have their differing opinions as to the extent of the "cover up", but all will agree that watching it on TV is very different than living it, and it's better and not so good, depending on the topic.</p>
<p>Many times, I wonder if I made the best of it, which is why I stress to your kids to take advantage of EVERY opportunity, because looking back in regret really SUCKS, and I'd spare them that. I doubt it's a lesson you haven't tried to teach them already yourselves, but perhaps coming from some nobody on the internet who has, for better or worse, BTDT, they might listen a bit more.</p>
<p>It is cool, however, to see someone you know in one of those programs. It's happened a few times. Once they once interviewed my old Company Officer, who was now the CO of an SSBN. THAT was COOL! :D</p>
<p>Trust me, what you say has an impact. My son takes everything you say very seriously. Having an opportunity to "talk" with someone who has been through the academy experience, and also had neval officer experience, is very helpful to him and I am sure many others. </p>
<p>You're right, we as parents have laid the groundwork but now we have to step back and let them experience it all - the good and bad - themselves.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You're right, we as parents have laid the groundwork but now we have to step back and let them experience it all - the good and bad - themselves.
<p>Zaphod: As you are our voice of experience, perhaps you can enlighten; had dinner with some retired officers and wasn't paying total attention. They said that of their "class" of 1000, there was a very specific numerical correlation, something like (and here I need help) that one became Admiral at the top of the pyramid, and then the decending numbers were in a specific proportion, i.e. the leap to above Captain was a huge one. Can you illuminate?</p>
<p>They were most likely discussing probabilities, as follows:</p>
<p>You graduate, and become an ensign.</p>
<p>If you can fog a mirror in two years, you become a LTJG.
If you haven't run your ship aground, and haven't ticked off your CO, you make LT two years later (I know one guy who didn't).
About 3-4 years later, if you are having had a good Department Head tour, you SHOULD make LCDR.</p>
<p>With me so far?</p>
<p>The first BIG jump is from LCDR to CDR. It's the first step where there is some SERIOUS thinning out of the herd. The same thing happens at CAPT and each step up, only the selection is even more selective than the level below it.</p>
<p>So, if you ran a pareto chart (may as well teach you guys some process control while I'm at this ;) ), you will have a whole SLEW (close to 100%) who make LTJG and LT, a smaller percentage that will make it to LCDR, a MUCH smaller percentage that will make it to CDR, and an even MUCH smaller percentage that will make it to CAPT. The number of admirals in a class is likely to be less than 10, and that's being WILDLY optimistic. 2-3 is more realistic, and even that can be tough depending upon what the year groups around yours are doing.</p>
<p>The Air Force has Khober Towers---Terryl J. Schwalier was held over the fire for that bombing. The man who had made more changes for better security then any previous commander, his promotion to Maj. Gen was revoked. </p>
<p>The fact that he did not move the boundary and block off a street the that was used to drive the truck bomb (the Saudis refused to let it be blocked off.) He had asked to have that done, but the US had no control of the area. Saudi owed and controlled.</p>
<p>Life is not always fair, but some people, like Commander Lippold, fight on the grounds on principle. They are the people who keep the rest of us using our moral compasses. One should never give up a fight on the premise of "that's the way it is." I thank God for people like Commander Lippold and CAPT McVay's sailors who fight for what is right. People like them make the paths clearer for those of us who come after them.</p>