Comments on a preliminary college list?

College Search & Selection
1

I’m in 11th grade (school year runs Jan-Dec), U.S. citizen, lived abroad my entire life (4 countries in 3 continents). My parents would like me to start thinking about colleges to tour next time we’re back in the U.S. - we’ll probably only have a fortnight so the list should be short and well-considered.

Have taken the SAT and scored 2360, 1600 CR/M. GPA is a 3.9 unweighted which puts me in the top decile. Attend a highly competitive school that sends 100+ to Oxbridge and the Ivies each year. I’m reading the full A Levels (Physics, Chemistry, Math, further Math), and self-studying AP Biology, AP Psychology and AP Latin.

Extracurriculars are pretty well-rounded - founded/headed a volunteering program that 50+ kids in my school have served with, tons of volunteering in general, science research, officer of a few clubs, student government, school magazine editor etc., nothing really extraordinary. Have also done well at a few national and less competitive international academic competitions.

We’re fortunate to be decently well off, and my parents have committed to pay the COA of any school less the maximum Stafford loans. They’ll put any unused money towards professional school (if I attend), and since Med school is possibly in the future, schools with merit are preferred.

I’m interested in biochemistry, Math, economics, political philosophy, public policy etc. Would like a school where I can easily do research (preferably biomedical) beginning freshman year and which has plenty of pre-med shadowing opportunities. Preferably not in a large city (e.g. Columbia), but near a reasonably sized one. Am an introvert, pretty nerdy, more interested in chilling with a small group of friends than partying.

My preliminary list:
Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Brown, Pomona, Wellesley, Duke, Chicago, Rice, Emory (and Oxford), Wash U, Oberlin, Bryn Mawr, Mount Holyoke, Scripps, Case Western, U Rochester, U Southern Cal, Pitt

Do any of these schools strike you as not being good fits for me? Any schools that I’ve overlooked? Is my list filled with too many reaches? Any other suggestions?

2

Yeah, you’re pretty well off for college admissions.

I’d say Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Brown, Chicago and maybe even Duke are reaches for everybody, but you will probably get into a few of them. You’re fine for the rest.

If you’re an introvert who doesnt enjoy partying, I’d take off USC and maybe even Pitt.

3

You have a lot of schools that do not give merit. I think you have to decide if this is a priority or not.

4

If I decide to do pre-med, merit will be the biggest priority.

However, since I still have nearly 3 years before college, there’s a chance my plans may change, so I thought I ought to keep a few schools without merit on the list just in case. I’ll probably cut this down to 2-3 schools though.

Schools w/o merit: Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Brown, Pomona, Wellesley
Schools w/ ridiculously competitive merit: Duke, Chicago, Rice, Emory, Wash U
Schools w/ competitive merit: Oberlin, Bryn Mawr, Mount Holyoke, Scripps, Oxford Emory
Schools w/ more achievable merit: Case Western, U Rochester (if NMF), USC (if NMF), Pitt

Other than the first six schools, the rest were chosen with the amounts of merit they award in mind. Does this look like an okay list for merit? Is it safe enough?

Also, I know USC has a party school reputation, but if I get in and if I become a NMF, it’s automatic half tuition. USC’s also pretty large (surely there must be other nerdy introverts there!) and has honors programs, so I thought that might help. Or is it pretty much impossible to have a decent social life there without partying a lot?

I’ve also heard that Pitt is good about giving full tuition scholarships to high stats kids, and that it’s great for pre-med research/shadowing, so that’s why it’s on the list. Is Pitt a huge party school?

5

If you don’t want to be in a big city, you’ll likely be miserable at USC. It’s smack dab in the middle of LA, and not the nice part, either (sorry USC). If you like LA, however, look at UCLA–they have a nice campus in Westwood and it would be less overwhelming, campus-vibe wise. I’ve met some nice, nerdy kids from UCLA (my intern goes there!); all the USC kids I know are more extroverted/outgoing (and still lovely!). Pomona is amazing and I was actually thinking “Pomona!” as I read your post, before I got to your school list. I have a group of friends who all went to Pomona and were econ majors–they are all still friends over a decade later (I knew one of them and met all the rest through that person), and all are gainfully employed/happy/using their degrees well.

Your list seems really solid to me though. Your stats are good enough to get into most, and it’s a good list, especially for pre-med.

6

I think your list sounds good. Definitely keep Mount Holyoke on it, sounds like an excellent fit for you :slight_smile: My D is a first-year bio major and has her own lab space already, has made an amazing connection with her bio professor and already exploring internship possibilities. You also have the advantage of the 5-college consortium so have expanded opportunities not only for academic and social events but for networking.

7

I think merit is quite achievable for you at Mt. Holyoke for sure.

8

Your visit list appears to serve the purpose of getting an overview of different types of colleges/universities. Since uyor travel time is limited, I think you could narrow in a bit more, especially if this will be your one and only college visit trip.

We (also American expats) visited 14 schools in three weeks time – with time off in the middle for good behavior. We tried to dedicate one whole day to each college to really get an in-depth feeling of what it would be like to live there for four years, and overnighted at our son’s top choices. Wherever available, he interviewed on campus. This was a good way to meet both current students and admissions officers.

The geographic reach of your list seems overwhelming for a two week trip, even if you’re flying from place to place. You may have to pick two general areas for this trip and either visit the other parts of the country later or extrapolate by visiting “like” schools.

Even though it’s tempting to fill up your dance card with super reaches, to me the first to eliminate are Harvard, Yale, Stanford – not because you can’t get in (you can) but because with limited time you’re better off concentrating on matches and safeties, in other words, schools that you may feel more subjective toward. After visiting you will like some more, some less, so widen the mid-to-low range of your list.

To me the outliers culturally are Pitt, USC and Oberlin. Think about the attributes that appeal to you and look for colleges in the same general personality.

Do you have a home state? If yes, you should include your state university, especially if it has a respectable honors college. It’s good to know if this is an option for you both academically and financially. Is that why Pitt is on the list?

I think you’re correct in assuming that women’s colleges would be a potential source of merit aid. No sure why you’ve left Smith off the list. There are other small liberal arts colleges that are good for merit, e.g., Grinnell, Rhodes, but again, don’t go too wide geographically.

Since you’re already planning to be the northeast, I’d add a few more LACs that are strong in your prospective majors like Wesleyan, Williams.

Bear in mind that being a long-time American expat can be an EC in itself. Your life experience will be a plus in admissions at many colleges, especially if you’ve lived in under-developed or hot-spot countries.

Does your high school really “send 100+ to Oxbridge and the Ivies each year”? Or maybe you mean top colleges, not necessarily Ivies?

9

I see Pitt & USC as outliers, not Oberlin as much. They are strong in the sciences and have good research opportunities for an LAC. Might be a good fit for an introvert, too. Agree that it may be hard to visit with the others, though (although to be fair we did Wesleyan, Mt. Holyoke, Swat, Haverford, Dickinson, and Oberlin in one week based on flights in and out of Philadelphia – but it was a haul to Oberlin & back).

10

If you want really big merit to save money for medical school (which is very expensive), consider the lists of automatic full tuition/ride scholarships, competitive full tuition/ride scholarships, and (if you qualify) National Merit scholarships, linked to from this thread:

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1678964-links-to-popular-threads-on-scholarships-and-lower-cost-colleges.html

Here is what medical school costs for tuition and fees (not including living expenses):

https://services.aamc.org/tsfreports/

Since you presumably do not have any state residency, it may be difficult to be admitted to many public medical schools, and you would have to pay out-of-state tuition there. Remember that high medical school debt can restrict the choice of medical specialty you go into – if you have $300,000 in debt, you may find it to be unaffordable to go into a lower paid medical specialty like the primary care ones.

11

Thank you for all the comments!

That fortnight will probably be my only chance to visit schools before applications, though I’ll have another chance to visit after acceptances come in. I’ll try to narrow the list further, and may also apply to a few geographical outliers sight unseen then visit later if accepted.

Pitt and USC are on the list because of their generous merit scholarships - I haven’t really been able to find schools where merit is likely that also fit me well. I did comb through the merit lists and also considered BU, Tulane, Fordham, Northeastern, Texas A&M, Arizona State (Barrett) and Alabama (Honours), but felt overall that Pitt and USC fit better, though they definitely still don’t fit as well as I would like. Are there any suggestions for schools that are generous with merit and also fit me well?

No, I don’t have a home state. Last state we lived in was Texas, but that was fifteen years ago.

Smith has come on and off the list because while it does offers merit, I had the impression that it wasn’t as generous as the other women’s colleges. I’m also not sure if UCLA should go on the list, as I don’t think it offers many scholarships to OOS kids.

And yes, my high school really does send 100+ to Oxbridge and the Ivies each year, out of a cohort of roughly 1000 students. The country in which I currently reside streams students into sixth form colleges via a nationwide exam; students entering my school have scored at the 98th percentile or above and are mostly very talented. I don’t want to elaborate more here, but I can PM you if you want more details.

12

I’ve also been having trouble gauging how difficult it would be to get a particular merit scholarship, especially if it isn’t stats-based. I’ve heard that scholarships at schools like Duke, Emory, Rice, Wash U etc. are so difficult to get that they make HYP look like open admissions, so I’m wondering if I even have a shot at them?

At this point, I’m not really worried about being admitted to a college that suits me, but more so finding a school that both fits me well and would not leave me laden with unmanageable amounts of debt by the time I graduate from Med school.

13

As long as you will have the opportunity to make another trip before you have to make a final decision, I would tend to use this trip as an opportunity to learn what type of college you prefer in size and culture. I think you should pick two – or possibly three – geographic areas, like the northeast, the South, the Midwest, Texas, California, and concentrate on a cluster of schools that cover different sizes and types.

Merit scholarships are difficult to predict as they are awarded for reasons that are intangible, as well as for grades and scores. Aside from the few guaranteed scholarships, it’s really a trial and error process. You just have to apply to as many as you can competently handle.

Your grades and scores put you in the ballpark for any college and any scholarship. What will push you over the top are the extras like your essays, recommendations, extracurriculars, diversity factors, life experience. As I said, being an American expat can be an excellent EC of itself, but its up to you to communicate – through your essays, recommendations, how your perspective from living outside of America could contribute to the campus community.

Other than Emory, I’m not that familiar with medium to large universities that offer merit. For small LACs with merit and good sciences I’d recommend (in addition to Oberlin and Holyoke) Grinnell, Rhodes, Smith, Davidson, Colby, Davidson, Kenyon, Carleton, Reed. I would look into Smith’s STRIDE program.

I really couldn’t say which would be good fits as your list seems to cover a wide range of personalities and cultures. Which seem to be your favorites from afar? Sometimes if you start with a favorite or two you can expand to others that are similar in flavor.

For example, if you like Brown and Oberlin, you might like Wesleyan, Reed, Swarthmore, Smith. If you like Princeton and Pomona, you might like Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Carleton. These are general groupings, of course, and if you’re looking for substantial merit you may have to step outside of your comfort zone.

Even though you don’t live in the U.S. you may still have a home state if your parents own property and pay taxes there.

14

You have too many reach schools and your resume is similar to others at college prep schools. Yes, you might be accepted, but those elite schools get tons of applications similar to yours. Don’t take the chance and be left with nothing. If you’re “an introvert, pretty nerdy, more interested in chilling with a small group of friends than partying” and don’t want a big city, look into UC Davis, which has a good pre-med program. But just send out more applications, especially since finances are not a big deal for your parents. If you get into your schools of choice, great - you lost some money, but imagine the regret of not applying to enough colleges.

15

Emory Scholars (and Rhodes as someone mentioned) require a spring visit day for semi-finalists with faculty and staff, so if you can’t do this, take them off the list. Emory Scholars seeks candidates who might otherwise attend Ivies: look at bios of the past winners. You’d probably be a strong candidate for Oxford/Emory though. Apply as early as possible to Pitt for merit awards (rolling admissions) but it seems like the no. of large scholarships has gone down in past years.

If you apply EA to schools who aren’t near anything else (UR is one, not sure about CW or Oberlin) you can plan to visit them later if they give you the merit aid you want.

16

I don’t see how a UC is a fit for this OOS student looking for an inexpensive choice. University of Minnesota - TC has fairly inexpensive OOS tuition if you are looking at state colleges.

Reed - no merit aid. Carleton - a couple thousand a year to NMSFs, that is it for merit aid. This poster also mentions Williams, Wesleyan, Swat, Amherst, and Bowdoin. Again… no merit, or so little/so difficult to get that it is highly unlikely.

We did not really find merit aid to be :“trial and error”. For schools that offered merit regularly to high stats kids, my D2 (SAT 2380, like the OP), got merit at all of them where we expected her to. The amounts varied. But just to give you an idea, she got;

  • $25K - Mount Holyoke
  • $15K - Kenyon & Macalester
  • $23K - Lawrence

She didn’t apply to Dickinson (where her sister attended), but there is a high probability you could get $15-$20K in merit aid there (her sister had $15K a few years ago, and her stats are not as strong as yours). My D2 also got a surprise $5K at U of Chicago (did not expect merit there).

This does not establish residency for the state college application process. In most states the parents and the student need to reside there for a least a year before college to establish residency, and in some cases there are more requirements (CT has more requirements than that, for example).

17

Your list is reasonable considering your stats but, as others posted, your A list has a lot of competition from many similar high stat applicants. Consider Vandy for merit and pre-med, and give Duke, Rice, WUSTL your best shot for the merit. Take a look at UVa and William & Mary. With your high stats, Tulane likely will defer you at EA, but would give you merit RD.

18

Miami University in Oxford, Ohio has an honors college, and offers merit aid that you are likely to qualify for: http://miamioh.edu/admission/merit-grid/index.html . Additionally, there is a frequent poster (MiamiDAP, I think), whose daughter attended Miami University and went on to medical school from there. You may wish to look at the Miami University forum for more specific commentary on that school.

Some other thoughts in terms of schools that may meet your merit aid/geographic/size criteria, although perhaps with a little flexibility; look at the specific forums for these schools for more information:

Davidson College (within driving distance of Charlotte, NC; strong sciences/history/political science programs; no formal sororities)

Wake Forest University (in Winston-Salem, NC, not an overly large city; WFU also has a medical school, but there are a lot of hard partiers there, and the social scene is dominated by Greek organizations)

University of Richmond (in Richmond, VA (highly ranked school, strong business program)

William & Mary and UVa, as mentioned by one poster, are also excellent schools (William & Mary has a joint degree program with St. Andrews University in Scotland), but merit scholarship opportunities are probably somewhat limited at these schools unless you are an in-state student. Same with the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, but it might be worth a look.

19

I’d add Vanderbilt, which will love your test scores, has great biomedical facilities, and might offer you a nice merit scholarship.

20

^ I should have added Sewanee: The University of the South to my list above. It is not in a city (far from it – Chattanooga, TN is about 45 minutes away by car) but it has excellent hard science and social science course offerings; I know a couple of doctors who did their undergraduate work there. Your test scores/grades might get you some significant merit aid. A potential downside is the hard partying that is known to occur there.