<p>My D has auditioned and been admitted to Ithaca for MT and never paid for an accompanist at a college audition and I don't know anyone who has for MT, that is. </p>
<p>At Tisch, there are pianists in all the vocal classes and they are professionals on staff and not students or grad students. I have not heard of hiring an accompanist for lessons there ever. However, if you want to have someone make you an accompaniment tape or rehearse with you on your own time, you can pay someone. My D has been paid as an accompanist to do that. She also was a class accompanist for Vocal Tech classes on the paid staff in the summer Tisch pre-college program. I have not heard of students paying for accompaniment in MT other than on their own time but not for classes or lessons themselves.</p>
<p>PERHAPS some of the people you are talking about are music students studying vocal performance?</p>
<p>I'll add a couple of random thoughts to this discussion -- </p>
<p>First, can you imagine how many MORE kids would audition for CMU if they DIDN'T have an audition fee? For the record -- I'm not stating any opinion on their fees, whatsoever. But, if they already have over 1000 kids audition for the very few Acting and MT spots they have, just imagine how many more would likely audition if there were NO fee. They'd probably get all sorts of kids deciding to give it a try for the heck of it, all the while knowing they are not fully prepared to audition for CMU. The thoughts of having to wade through the 1000 plus kids who are willing to pay the $80 fee would make me overwhelmed enough. Add another 300 who decide to try CMU as a walk-in at Unifieds, and you can bet they'll be stuck doing nothing other than processing audition paperwork for the rest of the semester. </p>
<p>And along those lines, I have wondered something this whole audition cycle. Why don't some of these schools pre-screen their applicants by videotape or dvd? I know that Michigan has an academic pre-screening. I also know that there would undoubtedly be students who would complain that their tape didn't show their full potential, etc. when they didn't make it through the pre-screening.</p>
<p>But, as we went on these audition trips and saw the hundreds and hundreds of kids who had paid good money to go audition, we had to wonder. In the end, it all adds up to a whole lot of kids and parents paying money to fly or drive somewhere, pay for hotels, food, take time away from work and school, etc etc. We just wondered if it wouldn't be a good idea for schools to do some prescreening in order to potentially save a bunch of people a whole lot of time and money. If they could easily determine that the student wasn't going to be considered for their program, it would be helpful to the students as well as to the school. </p>
<p>Can anyone tell me if this IS done somewhere? And even if it is, why isn't it done more often?</p>
<p>Interesting thoughts Tiff- I had the same ones last year. I felt good knowing that Mich and NYU at least had some academic prescreens in place. I wondered why the converse was not true? </p>
<p>And my 2 cents on the other posts recently: Auditioning and applying is very expensive. I don't feel we were misled at all however by any school. We read a lot, researched and made a choice as to what schools were best to apply to. My D applied to 8 schools...our upper limit was 10 - and I thought that was a lot!-it all added up with fees and travel(we did not do Unifieds). BUT, we did it because of the long odds being faced and we were financially able to do so. We knew CMU only took a few girls but how would we know if the petite, quirky one with the big voice was graduating unless she auditioned(she wasnt unfortunately :()...anyway, my point is the same as everyone else has said - make a list, make it realistic based on MT things, make your choices and then GO FOR IT!</p>
<p>I agree with SoozieVt -- there was no "pianist" charge at Ithaca when my daughter auditioned there several years ago.</p>
<p>Personally, although the audition process does get expensive, I must say I didn't begrudge any of the audition fees. There are plenty of reasons a school would charge you to audition: in addition to the actual time spent by staff members at the audition, there is a lot of paperwork to deal with; not to mention that after the auditions are over, the faculty has to agree on who to accept into the program! Auditions are not just 3-hour affairs; in reality a great deal of preparation goes into the process. And don't forget, for off-campus auditions, all expenses for faculty would have to be covered: hotels, meals, travel, etc.</p>
<p>In the end, you have to be an informed consumer and ask the right questions. I have found that the schools will answer them honestly. If you don't like the answers, you don't have to apply to that school.</p>
<p>Lorelei is correct. Some schools do require voice and MT students to pay for an accompanist. My D has paid around $250.00 per semester for the accompanists who have worked with her at lessons, twice weekly practice sessions, and juries. Yes, it is an extra, perhaps "hidden" fee. However, when I take into consideration how low her school's tuition rate is compared to places like CMU or NYU, we still come out quite a bit ahead financially! I agree that it is good to be aware that paying for a pianist is an expense that you may be shouldering in addition to tuition, fees, books, music, housing, meals, dance attire, transportation, oh my! </p>
<p>So there is no confusion, FSU does not charge an accompanist fee for students auditioning for the MT program.</p>
<p>To clarify - Michigan students pay their accompanists to accompany lessons - but Lorelei is right, there are usually many great accompanists in the pool, and then it's a matter of coordinating schedules.</p>
<p>Here is a good example of why we do not begrudge money spent on auditioning: Our D was extremely active in theatre, forensics, choir, church band and youth group, etc. her senior year. In theatre and forensics she was an important part of the troupe that was competing the entire spring of her senior year. Her school's One Act Play made it to the State competition for the first year in history and she was a part of it. She went to state and nationals in forensics--also a first for her school. We gave her the option of dropping out of all these activities to prepare for upcoming college auditions or to prepare herself to be admitted to a state university with excellent one on one opportunities and a very good musical theatre department. She opted to continue her school activities, was accepted to the state U, auditioned for the very selective MT department and was not accepted to it. They only took 5 girls out of 300 students auditioning. She entered the university as a theatre major (non-audition) and began preparing to transfer to a NY university for fall 2008. She auditioned for and got a spot with one of the top vocal teachers on her campus which caused quite a stir as it is not the norm. She found an acting teacher who works with audition monologues.
Bottom line: After a semester of trying to get out of the place, she sees what a great place it really is since travelling to these other schools for auditions.
She was selected for the university's MT program in another audition 3 mos. after school began, landed a lead role in the mainstage musical production this month, (the only freshman in several years to be cast) was cast in a lead in the Shakespeare troupe which will go to London in May to perform and attend master classes. Again only two freshmen got into the troupe.
Besides all of that she has become quite fond of her sorority sisters and living in the house with them--a part of life she would have to give up going to NYC. AND she made the Dean's List. The point of this lengthy missive is that the auditions helped her to decide what is best for her. Had she not done them, I think she would continue in her current school unhappy because she would always feel she could have done better. In actuality, she now knows her present spot is better. We have not yet heard from NYU, but at this point it doesn't matter to her what the letter says. We are thrilled because she is only 3 hours away from us and she will graduate loan free prepared to take on NYC if she still wants to. The several hundred dollars (or probably thousands with travel and rooms etc. but who's counting) were well spent in our book. And the stories we can tell from the experience can liven up a dinner party.</p>
<p>Tiff - I think you made a good point about the audition fees creating an artifiIcial barrier to keep the number of students auditioning down to something less than ridiculous. </p>
<p>blankslate - agree totally. I was looking at making a $145,000-$200,000 purchase. What I spent on trips, fees, etc was good money spent visiting and researching. The school that had been my D's #2 choice for over a year we discovered was totally unacceptable. Plus having this time with my D as she finally leaves the nest...the memories and bonding...as Mastercard says "PRICELESS". </p>
<p>Freedom - You do have a positive spirit and determination that is just inspiring. We will be here in 2013 cheering you on! The cost of college is really sinking in around here. My D wants to take some inexpensive Jr. college classes this summer to knock off some credits at a reduced rate. Maybe you can do that too being careful to not exceed the maximum or jeopardize being considered a transfer student? It could save $$$$ and free up space for other classes you might want to take later.</p>
<p>MOAP, if you think about it, all fees related to training for musical theater (dance and voice lessons, coaching, etc.) no doubt keep any number of really talented but untrained kids from pursuing musical theater. During my D's BoCo audition, I was talking with several other moms about the cost involved in the whole audition process. One of them said "The audition process? What about the whole process leading up to the auditions, including years and years of dance, voice and all of that?" She commented that, for better or for worse, MT is really mostly for people from the middle class and above, mainly because the training costs so darned much.</p>
<p>I agree that it can cost a lot (although some kids get a bunch of this, it seems, at their schools, but that was not the case where we live). In all fairness, my D who is pursuing MT.....her extracurricular activities were no more expensive than what we put into our other child's interests/activities and summers, etc. In her case, her activities are not related to her eventual career even. I do believe their lives were enriched by these interests and activities and I never saw the expense as related to getting into college. They'd have done the same things even if they were never heading to college. I can think of one thing we spent that was more college admissions related and that was six months of an acting coach on monologues as my D had never had acting lessons or classes as we don't have them here. Otherwise, the activities and lessons (which clearly were not cheap) were things they did their whole lives out of interest and not as prep to get into college. </p>
<p>If you have drama classes or dance classes at your school, that is one way to cut some costs. We did not. Some people have youth theater programs where they live and we do not and our D did that in summers which was expensive. I do think it costs a lot but it may vary depending on what activities you have available in your school and neck of the woods. Again, I find this not that different than spending money on ECs for my other kid, however (those were not cheap either).</p>
<p>By the way, my D's good friend that she grew up with and went to school with, also pursued MT (which is not common at our HS) and applied to two BFA in MT programs (both well known ones) and got into one. I would say that they are below middle class (live in subsidized housing and came here as refugees). I think the only shows she was in was at our HS. She took voice with my D's voice teacher but not as many years or as frequently. She took dance at our studio but not as many classes as my D. She had no acting classes (not did my D). She did go one summer to Circle in the Square and took classes at Broadway Dance in NYC one summer as her father lives in NJ and I imagine helped with that. So, she did get into a fine program and didn't have huge expenses going into it and actually only traveled to TWO auditions!</p>
<p>Folks, we are going to have to "agree to disagree." </p>
<p>Michigan keeps its application numbers down by setting an academic requirement. If CMU did this, their app numbers would drop, as would the app revenues. They STILL would have gotten my money, mind you, but many families would have saved the fees and the time and expense of traveling for auditions. </p>
<p>I work in pharmaceutical marketing. We have a great drug that has been found to be effective in several diseases, but we don't spend much money promoting the drug for the rarest of them...it is not cost effective to market to that small a population. How much does CMU (or CCM or UMich or any of the ultra-exclusive schools) spend to market their MT program to the 10 to 12 kids who get in each year and the thousands who don't? Which is the greater financial yield for them: the app fees or tuition?</p>
<p>The other wiggly ethical part of this is that we are talking about marketing a dream to young adults who in many ways are still children playing dress-up. Yes, it is a business that breaks hearts and they are going to have to learn it sometime...and who among us would be able to tell their kids that they are not whatever enough to make it so don't try?</p>
<p>Forgive me please for rambling and not making hard points...I am just venting misgivings about this process.</p>
<p>I do know that the application fees are part of the income colleges plan into their budgets. This is one of the appeal elements of a prominent, successful athletic program and/or team, i.e. more applicants and application fees, as well as more alumni involvement. Many offices at a university are expected to pay their own freight, conjure up ways to make enough money to fund their expenses. Admissions is no different. </p>
<p>I am not opining about the worth of any of these expenses, i.e. accompanists and lessons, etc., just that parents and auditionees should be knowledgeable about this issue and plan for it. Asking the right questions is always critical!</p>
<p>I think applicants need to do a bit of pre-screening themselves. There are kids who apply to Harvard or Yale, for example, who have NO chance of getting in and it is very clear that their stats are not in the ballpark for those schools but they apply anyway. Even if you have the qualifications, the odds are slim but if you don't have the qualifications, the odds are nil. If you take out the applications that are not at all in the ballpark for the college, that still leaves LOTS and LOTS of kids applying who are qualified but in my view, you should only be applying to colleges where you are somewhat in the ballpark for admissions in the first place. I see countless people apply to colleges that they simply like with no assessment of the odds of admissions and the stats of admitted students academically. This is before even getting to the artistic end of things. I've had kids come to me wanting Yale or NYU, for example, who were nowhere in the ballpark and had they not come to me, they likely would have applied. On the artistic end, I see some with very little training or experience who have not been able to rise up in their school or local area. They may have a shot at MT, but should be applying to some schools that do not attract the cream of the crop. But they want CMU, etc. They don't realize that they will be competing against the best of each local area and they do not self assess their skill sets appropriately. They likely COULD get into a MT program if they applied to the appropriate ones for their skill sets and not just the name schools. </p>
<p>So, I think on any applicant pile to a selective school, you could skim right off some who were not appropriate applicants in the first place. I suppose UMich does this on the academic front. People need to do this a bit on their own end. It is not about telling their kids not to try or that they don't have what it takes but it is about a realistic assessment of their academic stats, artistic skill levels and achievements and finding the right schools that fit them. I see time and time again where people want what they hear as the "best" or "top" schools and sure, they can apply but I almost know from the get go that those likely are not happening for them. Thankfully, some have taken suggestions to apply to schools I have mentioned where they truly have a chance.....I had someone last year and this year, get into ONE MT program (neither participate here) and these were programs I had to convince them to add and they did at the very end of the application cycle. One is now at her school and loves it and to think she almost never applied. Coming up with the appropriate list is crucial. Realistic assessment and realistic expectations are needed, as well.</p>
<p>From a parent's point of view, it sure would make sense for schools such as Carnegie Mellon to prescreen applicants who wish to audition. But in CMU's case, that prescreening would not be academic, as a student's academic record has very little to do with whether that student is eventually admitted. Though I am sure many students admitted to CMU for drama and MT do have great academic records, I know others who do not. So a CMU prescreening would have to be artistic only.</p>
<p>By the way, if a school sets an academic requirement and pre-screening, some people could save themselves time and money as they can read the stats of admitted students and apply if they are somewhat in range and pick different schools if they are not in range. They don't need to pay UMich to tell them they don't have the stats. That could be assessed on their own end by reading the qualifications of admitted students. I understand why UMich does this because people still apply who are NOT in the ballpark and are wasting their time and money.</p>
<p>Agree with NMR on CMU which weights the audition for about 90% of the admissions decision. I am not sure how they would do the artistic screening and in order to do it somehow, that would cost money on their end too.</p>
<p>I think they should require a pre-screening DVD. They would still have many auditioning. They could still charge whatever fee they want to pass judgment on the DVD. Curtis has a $150 application fee and requires another $150 if an audition is granted from the pre-screening CD. It would also force kids to get their audition rep and monologues ready early since the DVDs would likely be needed by Dec. 1. Performance majors know that they have to start working on rep in the summer before senior year - at the very latest - in order to have a chance of getting pre-screening CDs ready. If nothing else, it would weed out the procrastinators.</p>
<p>Juilliard drama will audition anyone who applies in time and pays the audition fee, but prescreens vocalists by (not sure about this, as I have this info only secondhand) audio or videotape.</p>
<p>Most of the conservatories and many of the more competitive universities require pre-screenings for music. I'm sure it is harder to judge acting and dance on a short DVD but they could be very liberal in granting auditions and still screen out many who are not in the ballpark. The problem then would be that a certain number of people would be able to afford very expensive, professionally done audition DVDs while others would send in homemade camcorder DVDs so there would still be a sense of unfairness. As a friend of mine once said "There's one fair a year and that's in Timonium." Only NMR will get this BTW.</p>