Community College vs High School

Student Lounge College Life
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<p>Hi everyone,</p>

<p>I used to think that CCs were a joke; the laughing stock of education. I know, that's a pretty bold, ignorant statement to start a thread with, but again, that's what I used to think.</p>

<p>Anyway, lately, money has really been getting its bite in my family's leg. Rough times. Originally, I was hoping to get into Berkeley as a freshman out of high school, but the rough times and some mental/emotional instabilities of mine have caused my GPA to become volatile. Usually, I get straight As (4.0s), but this year, Junior Year, I've been making some insanely stupid mistakes in my classes, and am ending with a 3.0 unweighted both semesters. It doesn't help that I'm at a new, worse school than where I was last year.</p>

<p>My SAT is pretty high (2120), and I have some AP courses under my belt (6), so I'm not entirely new to college courses. This year, I'm taking AP USH, AP Chem, and AP Eng Lang. I've also been self studying AP Psych, AP Env Science, and AP Human Geo.</p>

<p>My questions are as follows...</p>

<p>1) I can probably get into UCSB or Davis (amazing ECs/decent GPA), should I take that option instead of a CC? I may feel hopeless and depressed if I go to a CC, just because I'm very mature. I'll probably end up hating myself for ruining my chances at Berkeley and may become emotional/suicidal...
but who knows? I have a life coach, she doesn't recommend it. Berkeley has been my dream, and I want it. Should I take the CC path?</p>

<p>2) how hard are CC courses in comparison to high school courses? I'll probably get all 5s on my AP tests and a 4 in Chem. I go to a top rated public school (top 30 in state), if that could help with the comparison.</p>

<p>3) anyone know about sbcc? I really want the "college experience" with a quality education. Is this a good school?</p>

<p>4) average berkeley accepted transfer has a 3.77. Holy crud. That seems hard. Is it? I know that I'd be able to get it if all goes as planned. But my GPA and grades can be as volatile as my emotional state. If sbcc is a great school, I'll get a 4.0 (math might get me, though). But, if I hate it, I'll get a 2-3.0. I don't know, that's just what happens with me.</p>

<p>5) I've been rapping Cal since I was walking. I love Berkeley. Are there any other ways to get in? I'll have a 3.6 unweighted/3.96 weighted by the end of this year... (3.9 UC) should I go for it? Is it possible to go to UCSB, get A's, then transfer to sbcc and from there, make it easier to transfer to Berkeley?</p>

<p>6) UCSB vs sbcc. Professors? Quality? Experience? Price? Happiness? Honestly, if the people are happy and the professors are great, I'll do excellent.</p>

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<p>Sorry, not “rapping Cal,” but “repping Cal.” Lol. I’ve been wearing the shirts, doing my room in the respective theme, falling in love with it. Haha</p>

<p>I’m not crazy, by the way. lol. I just really love Cal.</p>

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<p>(Background: Maryland CC -> CCC -> UCB, EECS)</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I’m not sure how maturity relates to CC/depression. The mature thing to do if you head down the CC path is to buckle down, do your work, and not let your emotional state affect your performance in class. Well, that or get some help… it’s really not healthy to be depressed/suicidal. I wouldn’t say there’s a huge difference in maturity between CCC and UC, though. UC students tend to have a better work ethic, they try harder in class, they want to learn more. CCC has more students who just want to go to school, and go home. If you take later classes (after 4pm) there will be more adults during class, and that feels a lot less like highschool part 2. In my experience though, CCC is more socially dead/quiet, the average student isn’t as strong academically, but for the most part it doesn’t feel too immature.</p></li>
<li><p>Compared to Berkeley, CC is really, really easy. Compared to your AP classes, and depending on which CC classes you take, it might be harder, it might be easier. That’s hard to say without knowing how your current classes are. Yes, it’s hard to get a 4.0 at a CCC, some students can pull it off, but for others, well, it’s still school. The classes are real, you’ll have papers and projects and exams. college typically has less busywork than highschool… you don’t get an A for effort anymore. Basically, what you’re graded on will change.</p></li>
<li><p>You probably won’t get a “college experience” at any CCC. They’re commuter schools, students show up, go to class, go home. Education tends to be hit or miss at CC as well… some teachers will be kinda good, some teachers will be really awful.</p></li>
<li><p>Again, depends on you. I wouldn’t bank on getting a 4.0. I love school, I loved the classes I was taking, I only had ~3.7-3.8 when I left CC. That said, you don’t need a perfect GPA, but you do need to keep it really really high. The “if I hate it I’ll fail” mindset is a poor one… if you hate it, use it as motivation. If you want to get somewhere better, get the best grades you can so you don’t kill your chances.</p></li>
<li><p>Well, still apply out of highschool, you never know what’ll happen. It’s Berkeley. I’ve been watching the CS admissions since yesterday… sometimes 4.0 students get rejected, sometimes 3.5 students get in. It’s hard to predict which way admissions will go. If you’re convinced you’ll hate CC, don’t do it. Go to another UC, they’re still great schools. You can also apply for UC->UC transfer. You lose the priority that CCC students get, but it would mean not getting stuck at CC for a year or two. Also, you might fall in love with another UC, and decide you want to stay there. Also, even if you go the CC route, there’s no guarantee you’ll get into your dream school. It’s not a joke, you still need to get great grades. And even then, acceptance rate for Berkeley tends to be ~20% I think? If your major is impacted the chances are even worse… I think EECS/CoE is down near 10% now. So, from either school there’s a chance you can transfer, and there’s a chance it won’t go your way.</p></li>
<li><p>CC is much much cheaper than UC, and the classes tend to be easier. For everything else, UC wins.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>As for actual advice, you’re still a junior, you’ve got time. Apply, see where you get in. Look at your options then, figure out what makes sense, and go with what’s best then. It’s a bit early to decide now!</p>

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<p>AP courses are advanced high school courses, not college courses. Although they may cover some of the same material as frosh level college courses, they differ from college courses in that college courses have less hand holding and require more student self motivation. For example, a high school course may have a small homework every day which is an important part of the grade and serves to keep students on track, while a college course may have a homework every week or so that is a relatively smaller part of the grade. College course tests often have higher expectations and harder problems than high school tests, which are loaded with easy problems so that C students can get 70% of them correct (college course do not necessarily hold to fixed percentage grading, often grading on a curve).</p>

<p>Also, note that AP courses in psychology, chemistry, and environmental science are typically year long high school courses, but the frosh-level college courses covering the same material are semester long courses. For AP human geography, it may be rare to find colleges that consider it equivalent to one of its own courses.</p>

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<p>That’s insane! Chemistry in one semester?? What??</p>

<p>Honestly, I’d probably fail an AP Chemistry course condensed into one semester. Wow! That’s insane! Do college courses cover the whole AP spectrum?? That’s amazing! Wow, I wouldn’t think that people could handle such a course. I mean, I could imagine Physics E&M or Physics Mechanics in one semester, because many high schools do that anyway, but still! AP Chem in one semester would be the death of me.</p>

<p>Are you sure, @ucbalumnus??</p>

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<p>@UCalifornias‌ Yes, most college classes are only one semester long. Some are split into series (physics 1 is mechanics, 2 is E&M, 3 is waves/heat, etc) but highschool AP classes generally map to one semester college classes. That said, you typically only take 4 classes per semester in college, and you’ll get fewer short/busywork assignments. That means the pace is much much faster, but it’s not necessarily going to double the amount of work you’ve got to do.</p>

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<p>@Failure622, oh, okay. I think that I understand. So college work is purely based off of material? Less abstract assignments, and more concept based work?</p>

<p>So for example, my AP English class makes you read 8 books throughout the school year. In a one semester English 101 course, It’d be less books, but more focused on understanding them?</p>

<p>…or would it still be a ton of books?</p>

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<p>@UCalifornias‌ That will depend on the class. I’ve had english classes that only read one or two books, and I’ve got a class right now that’s assigned 8+ books and averages 200 pages of reading per week. But they don’t give worksheets or short assignments, grades for non-STEM classes depend pretty heavily exams and essays (2-4 per class, maybe). Again, workload and what the assignments are will vary drastically from one class/professor to the next. The only constant is that you should expect to be graded more on big assignments, and less on effort and little assignments/homeworks. The school you’re at will affect things as well… Berkeley is way more work, UCSB should be less stress than Cal, and CC is relatively easy. But because you’re graded so differently in high school, it’s hard to say where it falls on that scale for the average student.</p>

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<p>Here are some UC examples for AP chemistry subject credit:</p>

<p>Berkeley: varies by major, at most one semester of chemistry (not for chemistry or chemical engineering majors)
Los Angeles: no credit against specific chemistry courses
San Diego: score of 5 counts for a year of chemistry; score of 3 counts for a quarter of lower level chemistry
Davis: score of 5 counts for a quarter of chemistry; score of 3 counts for a quarter of lower level chemistry
Santa Barbara: score of 3 counts for a quarter of lower level chemistry
Irvine: score of 4 counts for a quarter of chemistry
Santa Cruz: score of 5 counts for a quarter of chemistry
Riverside: score of 3 counts for a quarter of chemistry
Merced: score of 4 counts for a semester of chemistry</p>

<p>And CC courses will cover material at college pace, not high school AP pace.</p>

<p>As far as workload goes, college courses won’t have as much in the way of busy work or lots of small easy assignments (which function as hand holding to keep students from falling too far behind without the teacher noticing). You will also be taking fewer college courses at one time (usually 4 or 5) than high school courses at one time (usually 6 or 7).</p>

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<p>Oh, alright. So it depends on the University.</p>

<p>By the way, since I’m being helped anyway, how does TAG work? I know what it is and what it does, but can you TAG for a bunch of UCs? When do you decide to be part of TAG? Does Berkeley have some kind of Transfer Alliance with community colleges?</p>

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<p>You can only TAG one school. Applications for TAG are due really early… September of your sophomore year. Regular applications (you submit that for the school you TAG, as well) are due in November. You can only TAG one UC, but you can apply during regular admission to as many as UCs as you’d like. Remember that TAG isn’t subjective like normal apps… if you meet the guidelines, it’s approved, so there’s not really a reason to TAG more than one school. And submitting a TAG doesn’t bind you to that school, it just means that you’re guaranteed acceptance there if it gets approved.</p>

<p>Berkeley has TAP (Transfer Alliance Project), which is different from TAG. From what I know, TAP is more of an advising/mentoring program for “underserved” students, so it’ll help with academic planning and applications and such I think? I don’t know how you get involved in that one, though.</p>