Com'on help me out here

<p>WP, I know. I know….. You & me is in da same boat buddy! That statement was just so lame. But I ate some chocolate & am better now. I read further a minute ago & oh my. Me thinks the lady needs to give the kids a little credit for having smarts. I’m talking about enlisted kids here. I have met a good many of them & geez… I can’t recall meeting one imbecile out of any of them. My sister is Army enlisted. She’s into medicine, that stupid girl. ;)</p>

<p>You & I both know WP, that SA kids get pushed beyond what they thought were their limits. By golly, they do it though. And what is the result? Yea, I think you know. They are on top of the world!! And we also know why they are being pushed….. This is why we should never venture outside of our own threads. LOL It’s a big black hole & we got sucked in. Thanks LFWBDad! You’re on your own from now on. LOL </p>

<p>I could high five that “driver” person who responds in that thread. Truly, all of them have been most thoughtful except the insulting one. And ya’ll thought I drank a lot. ;)</p>

<p>"It is a highly honorable thing to do. It's not even a right wing thing to do. James Carville, Mark Shields, and Jim Lehrer are all former Marines." driver</p>

<p>This remark made me :)</p>

<p>**Who Performed Military Service </p>

<p>Democrats** </p>

<p>David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72
Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, etc
Jimmy Carter: Lt. Commander in the Navy 1946-53
Wesley Clark: Army 1966-2000, Vietnam, Silver star, purple heart
Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver/Bronze stars, Vietnam
Bill Clinton: Did not serve
Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72
Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze star
Michael Dukakis: Army 1955-57
John Edwards: Did not serve
Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71
John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs; Air Medal w/18 Clusters
Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam as journalist
Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74
Howell Heflin: Silver star
Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze star
Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII
Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53
Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam
John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver/Bronze stars, purple hearts
Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII
Jim McDermott: Navy 1968-70
George McGovern: Silver star & DFC during WWII
Zell Miller: Marine Corps, 1953-56
Walter Mondale: Army 1951-53
Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver star, etc
Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze star, Korea
Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-79; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91
Chuck Robb: U.S. Marine Corps, 1961-70, Vietnam
Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart</p>

<p>Republicans </p>

<p>Spencer Abraham: Did not serve
Eliot Abrams: Did not serve
Richard Armitage: Navy, three tours in Vietnam
John Ashcroft: Did not serve
Roy Blunt: Did not serve
Michael Bloomberg: Did not serve
George H.W. Bush: Youngest Navy pilot in WW II; awarded DFC
George W. Bush: Texas Air Nat. Guard; didn't take physical; suspended from flying
Jeb Bush: Did not serve
Saxby Chambliss: Did not serve. Attacked Cleland's patriotism
Dick Cheney: Did not serve
Christopher Cox: Did not serve
Tom DeLay: Did not serve
Bob Dole: Army in WWII, Bronze star, two purple hearts
Bob Dornan: Enlisted after fighting was over in Korea
John Engler: Did not serve
Douglas Feith: Did not serve
Gerald Ford: Lt. Commander, Navy in WWII
Bill Frist: Did not serve
Newt Gingrich: Did not serve
Rudy Giuliani: Did not serve
Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer
Phil Gramm: Did not serve
Chuck Hagel: Served in Vietnam, two Bronze stars and purple heart
Dennis Hastert: Did not serve
Tim Hutchison: Did not serve
Jack Kemp: Did not serve. "Knee problem," continued in NFL for 8 years
Jon Kyl: Did not serve
Trent Lott: Did not serve
Richard Lugar: Intelligence officer in Navy 1957-60
John McCain: POW in Vietnam, Legion of Merit, Silver Star, DFC, many more
Mitch McConnell: Did not serve
John McHugh: Did not serve
George Pataki: Did not serve
Richard Perle: Did not serve
Colin Powell: 35 years in Army, 4-star general
Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard
Ronald Reagan: Served in WWII making movies
Tom Ridge: Army in Vietnam, Bronze star
Dana Rohrabacher: Did not serve
Karl Rove: Did not serve
Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight instructor
Rick Santorum: Did not serve
Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base
Richard Shelby: Did not serve
JC Watts: Did not serve
Vin Weber: Did not serve
Paul Wolfowitz: Did not serve </p>

<p>Pundits, Preachers, and Judges </p>

<p>Bill Bennett: Did not serve
Wolf Blitzer: Did not serve
Pat Buchanan: Did not serve
William Buckley: Army in WWII
Charlie Daniels: Did not serve
Lou Dobbs: Did not serve
Paul Gigot: Did not serve
Sean Hannity: Did not serve
Bill Kristol: Did not serve
Jim Lehrer: U.S. Marine Corps
Rush Limbaugh: Did not serve
Chris Matthews: Did not serve
Michael Medved: Did not serve
Ted Nugent: Did not serve
Bill O'Reilly: Did not serve
Dan Rather: Army Reserve
Ralph Reed: Did not serve
Michael Savage: Did not serve
Antonin Scalia: Did not serve
Kenneth Starr: Did not serve
Clarence Thomas: Did not serve
John Wayne: Did not serve
George Will: Did not serve</p>

<p>Check out post #30. LMAO Hysterically! I'm not kidding. I had to wipe tears out of my eyes I was laughing so hard. I believe someone wants to play the Sigman game with us. Too funny. See? Told ya. The Boones Farm has gone to her head.</p>

<p>I'm staying waaaaaaaay clear of that thread.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Who Performed Military Service-Part II </p>

<p>Republicans

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Abraham Lincoln: Illinois Militia, but never saw combat</p>

<p>My 2 cents added. </p>

<p>Arguing with those who think that any school where you can just walk off campus anytime and get a beer ISN'T a party school, well..... :rolleyes:</p>

<p>ETA:</p>

<p>If so many Democrats saw military service and/or combat, would someone please explain to me why they have built their political careers in a party that openly loathes the military, and which seeks to see it defeated in every endevour it undertakes? :rolleyes:</p>

<p>Go into the military today and throw around the names of John Murtha, or Jimmy Carter, or any of the others, and see what the response is.</p>

<p>BTW, you should remove Zell Miller from your list. His support for the war, the military, and the President has made him persona-non-grata in that hyper-patriotic Democratic Party of yours which claims to "love" the military. :rolleyes:</p>

<p>I seriously doubt that the Democrats that have served in the military loath the military, and that Democrats in general loath the military; the statement just smacks a bit too much like Republican hyperbole. And I'm not at all surprised that those who have served, and in particular those who have seen combat, are reluctant to put our sons and daughters in harms way unnecessarily.</p>

<p>On the other hand, it sometimes seems that those who have never seen combat are all to often drawn to the “glamour” of war so long as others are doing the fighting. I've been around long enough to have seen this scenario played out more than once. I'm also very reluctant to take a politician seriously with regard to matters of war if they haven't served themselves.</p>

<p>Now that I know a bit more about who has, and who hasn't served, I can see why there is support from some quarters for the war in Iraq, and no support from others.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I seriously doubt that the Democrats that have served in the military loath the military, and that Democrats in general loath the military; the statement just smacks a bit too much like Republican hyperbole.

[/quote]

"Republican hyperbole", eh?</p>

<p>Don't take my word for it. Look at some examples:</p>

<p>John Murtha (EX-Marine, not FORMER Marine) basically goes out and calls his brother Marines murderers and worse before the facts are even in. It's so egregous that one of those Marines is now suing Murtha for defamation.</p>

<p>Remember Dick Durban (Dick Turban) and what HE said about our troops, and how the entire Democrat party lined up behind him until the outcry forced him to "apologize"?</p>

<p>Ever been over on Democratic Underground? These people ADORE all the idiots that are posted above with military service. I'm going to go find the link to a thread where a story about a young Marine sniper doing his job is posted, and let you see just how much they "support" the military.</p>

<p>I was in during the Clinton years. The only real budget CUTS were in the military. I remember squadrons having to canibalize aircraft for spares. I remember my own ship not getting underway one time because we didn't have the money to pay for the FUEL OIL.</p>

<p>Oh, yeah. They love them, all right. :rolleyes:</p>

<p>
[quote]
On the other hand, it sometimes seems that those who have never seen combat are all to often drawn to the “glamour” of war so long as others are doing the fighting.

[/quote]

You were mentioning something about "hyperbole"? :rolleyes:</p>

<p>
[quote]
I'm also very reluctant to take a politician seriously with regard to matters of war if they haven't served themselves.

[/quote]

Neither Clinton nor Reagan served. Which one did you blow off while still retaining a shred of credibility? You can't blow off both and not have done a complete flip-flop somewhere in between.</p>

<p>Interesting. You seem to suggest that only those who served should be in power. At one time, the Left excoriated the Right for bringing up military service, and accused them of trying to limit elected officials to only those who had served (real love for the military once again displayed). Now, they hold up their false-medal heroes and say, "SEE? It doesn't matter what else he thijnks, HE SERVED!" </p>

<p>Also, a good number of those honorable democrats you listed above voted FOR this war, and when given the chance to vote AGAINST it, DIDN'T. I guess they left their guts behind when they took off that uniform (or threw their medals over the White House fence). :rolleyes:</p>

<p>I'd rather serve under someone who didn't, but supports those who do, than to serve under someone who did, but now spends his time undercutting those who do.</p>

<p>That's not hyperbole. It's FACT.</p>

<p>ETA: Oh, and to give you an idea of just how far supporting your nation in a time of war gets you in today's Democrat Party, look at Joe Lieberman. From VP candidate to ostracized loser in less than six years.</p>

<p>So much for "tolerance for alternative viewpoints". :rolleyes:</p>

<p>A comment from a newbie on this forum. I thought I would come and find a group of parents supporting one another. </p>

<p>I am quite disappointed to see that this forum is being utilized as a place to widen the divides between two groups of American people as well as to make such ill chosen remarks. </p>

<p>One can only say, "oh well" and move onto better places</p>

<p>Oh. . . you can learn to ignore most of the drivel that is typed on here. Most likely you should learn from the Jamzmomian types and just look for the posts that are useful to you and that you feel like responding to.
A trick learned earlier this year was to check certain people on the "ignore" button; that way you don't have to read the tiresome, useless rantings that unfortunately are a fact of life in cyberspace.
Some people never get tired of hearing themselves [seeing themselves type words?].</p>

<p>
[quote]
tiresome, useless rantings

[/quote]
</p>

<p>All in the eye of the beholder, right? ;)</p>

<p>Zap. As I was walking my dogs last evening, and before reading your reply to my post (of course I knew it was coming) I pondered the pros and cons of being and independent voter. While I don't get to vote in all primary elections (here in California independents do get to vote in some), that not inconsiderable disadvantage is far outweighed in my mind by avoiding the type of affiliation with a party that not infrequently turns into a blind adherence to your particular parties platform and a vehement hatred for the other parties points of view. If you live in a town that has a football team you can see the phenomena I’m talking of first hand. But politics isn’t a football game and blind loyalty to one’s party can sometimes override and supplant the processes of analysis and thought and degrade into “if it’s my party it’s right, if it’s your party it’s wrong.”</p>

<p>Being independent, and having no party loyalties, I am free to agree and disagree with candidates from both parties, respect and disrespect candidates from both parties, and best of all I don’t have any heartache about splitting my ballot and voting for who I think is the best candidate regardless of which party they belong to. But that’s just me.</p>

<p>KP10sMom: Don’t misinterpret Zap’s and my exchange as antagonistic. Think it as a ying and yang sort of thing. I actually respect Zap very much (though I strongly disagree with his political views) and have often quoted his advice to new cadets/mids to my own son starting his first year at West Point. It’s just that this group has widely divergent points of view and we are happy to share them with each other.</p>

<p>There is no misinterpretation, I recognize hatred and polarization of the other as I see it. </p>

<p>If we as a country can not speak and treat each other with respect, however will we solve the deeply complex problems which we find ourselves in in the world wide arena. We are all SOL unless we change the tone of our interactions with one another. </p>

<p>As for me I am looking for what I thought this board would be about, support of one another. It appears that it either never was that or was hijacked to become a soap box for political debate. </p>

<p>"Oh well" what am I back here for? I bid you peace</p>

<p>WPSON2010,</p>

<p>I agree with you 100% that blind loyalty to a political party is, well..... blind.</p>

<p>I am not blindly loyal to the GOP. I can run off a laundry list of things that they have both done and not done that drive me nuts. My opinions are never party-driven.</p>

<p>The fact remains that there IS hatred and polarization in this country, and it is being driven by a blinding hatred for one man, who just happens to be the President. Nowhere else in history can I find an instance of Americans actually hoping that the entire country fails and is defeated just so they can pin it on the President. When Clinton was in power, you didn't hear the right hoping we would fail in Bosnia (we're still there, BTW, despite his promise to bring the troops home by Christmas) just so we could pin it on him.</p>

<p>You don't hear people on the right calling for our troops to shoot our officers. You don't hear people on the right calling a Marine Sniper who is doing his job and doing it well a murderer. You don't hear elected leaders on the right (even the ones who disagree with the war) calling our troops murderers and terrorists. </p>

<p>You DO hear it on the left. All the time. And worse.</p>

<p>Since the modern DNC is where the left now resides (to the point where respectable individuals like Zel Miller and Joe Leiberman are now cast out as parriahs), you can understand why I laugh out loud at the contention that Democrats are somehow are better at running the military simply because a few of them served in it. Serving doesn't give you carte blanche to run your mouth off without consequences.</p>

<p>Now, if pointing out these facts (and they are facts, not opinions) makes me a "hatemonger" in the eyes of some, then so be it. Considering the probable political leanings of those playing the hate card, I consider it an honor.</p>

<p>I can at least be comfortable in knowing that my side is not actively rooting for our defeat simply because we don't like the party in power. That is a new low in American politics, and I am very sad to see it.</p>

<p>Zap, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one and leave it at that.</p>

<p>Fair enough. No foul at this end. :)</p>

<p>Nor here....</p>

<p>My left hand was itching so I knew Bill was talking about me again. Hey ya’ll are messing up a perfectly good happy hour with Billie Holiday. Now you know I’m not gonna jump in the fray unless Confused rears his ugly head again. Talk about drivel. Don’t let them upset you KP10sMom. Its just good discussion/debate here. If we get a nasty outsider like Confused in here, we pretty much all gang up & join ranks then. </p>

<p>Zap, go ahead & keep your little secrets on how the girls liked the kitties. I was only dying to hear but that’s ok. Really no. Its ok. I wouldn’t want to put you out by looking back to 300 posts ago when I’d asked. Truly. I’m not interested in the least. I’m only going to have a girl grandbaby & need to know this stuff. But that’s ok. I can ask someone else. Btw, petting your kitties lowers blood pressure they say. Might wanna try that. Can’t you just be happy that McKinney got flushed down the toilet today? LOL Cheers!</p>