<p>Can anyone comment on the pros/cons of the double degree programs at Oberlin/Oberlin Conservatory and Johns Hopkins/Peabody Conservatory? Also, how would you compare Oberlin Conservatory and Peabody overall, beyond the obvious differences in geography. D will be studying guitar performance.</p>
<p>Disclaimer: I don't know much about Oberlin, and as a current DD student at Peabody/JHU, I have very positive experience. - So all told, this post is definitely biased :)</p>
<p>Peabody has a fabulous guitar department... Both programs are probably the most supportive double degree programs out there. If your D's academic interest is in science/engineering, Hopkins seems to be the better choice; if on the humanities, Oberlin is probably nicer since it's a liberal art college (rather than a research universiy like Hopkins), although Oberlin is definitely not weak on the science/engineering nor is Hopkins weak on the humanities (in fact, Hopkins has first rate departments like Writing Seminar, International Relations, and History). </p>
<p>Peabody/JHU:
pros:
Very supportive - administrations from both schools are really willing to help (though sometimes willingness does not necessarily lead to satisfatory result...)
Flexible schedule - there is no fixed "model" schedule for DD students. Some may perceice this as an disadvantage, but it really allows complete shuffle of courses that make scheduling much easier.
...... (I'll continue the list later as I need some sleep now.)</p>
<p>Congratulations on the acceptances. Both are among the best possible choices for a double degree student. </p>
<p>One factor should be the personality and fit with the individual instrument teacher. Sample lessons are highly recommended. I do tend to downplay this factor. The interaction with the primary teacher is important, but only a small part of the overall college experience. It is also possible to develop inaccurate impressions with limited interaction.</p>
<p>If the teachers at both schools are acceptable and comparable, I would think that the choice should be easy. I wish my D had given herself the same opportunity, but after a disappointing and eye-opening tour of Bard, she would not consider a school with even superficially similar characteristics. My D would just not seriously consider another liberal, liberal arts college. Nor would she consider a college in the middle of nowhere - by her definition. Your D may be completely different and enjoy the smaller, more self-contained and liberal environment.</p>
<p>Peabody is also a small, tight and self-contained community. It does have the advantage of being in a city. Baltimore is not the greatest city for a college student, but my D enjoys the ethnic restaurants, jogging in the inner harbor, an occasional Orioles game and the ease of rail transportation for sightseeing in Wash, DC. Peabody strives to provide a nurturing and relaxed environment. Sometimes my D wishes there was more push and intensity, but as a double degree student she really does not have the time or energy for more intensity.</p>
<p>Thzxcyl, describes the Peabody administration as very supportive. I agree, but that is not always the case for individual teachers supporting the DD student. Some are supportive and understanding, some more neutral and a very few believe the dd students are not sufficiently committed. Another negative at Peabody/JHU is the distance between the two campuses. Each class at a different campus costs about 20 minutes in travel time, each way. Incidentally, your D will have a choice for the home campus. It is essential to pick Peabody in order to be able to participate in the off hours music opportunities.</p>
<p>Finally, one of the most important considerations is the relative difficulty of the two dd programs. At Oberlin, there are lots of dd students, the graduation requirements are relatively minimal and a high percentage complete their dd in 5 years. That is not the case at Peabody/JHU. There are only about 10-12 dd students per year and another 10-12 who are accepted into a structured recording arts dd program. For both groups, only about one third will actually graduate with a dd. A dd at Peabody/JHU is sort of like going to two full time colleges at once. The majority of students give up by the end of the second year and select a single major. A very small number burn out and dropout. My D is completing her second year, has past her decision point and will continue -- if her health and spirit hold. Half of the dd kids from her class have already selected a single major. She is taking 25 semester hours and there is no padding or fluff. She had 3 non-credit performance groups and had to drop out of two. My D did plan ahead for her 3rd year. Last summer she completed her foreign language requirement so that she should be able to cut back a little on the course load next year. Any student considering a dd at Peabody/JHU should be a bit crazy, very determined and understand what they are signing up for. I think admissions does a good job of selecting the right students, but I don't think they do much to explain the demands of a dd.</p>
<p>Thanks Thzxcyl and edad. Your comments are much appreciated. This is a tough decision for D to make as both programs have strong appeal for different reasons. The perspective offered along the way on this site has been most helpful!</p>
<p>Actually, as I mentioned, I would think the decision would be easy. The schools are so different that I would think one or the other would be an obvious better choice.</p>
<p>One of DD's roomates is pursuing a double degree, Voice Performance and Foreign Languages (I think). She doesn't seem too stressed, but D has mentioned that she does have a ton of work to do. Maybe voice majors have a bit of an edge in that they cannot practice more than a couple of hours a day without damaging their "instrument?"</p>
<p>As mentioned above, it's a multivariable equation where you have to factor in your child's ability to ride an emotional & academic rollercoaster and the support of the student's individual teacher. It will really come down to your child saying, "this is where I feel most comfortable."</p>
<p>One note of OT caution however, since I saw your NHSMI comment on another post. NHSMI, IMHO, does a very poor job of helping students anticipate what's coming at them at a conservatory. D played clarient so my observation may be more focused at ensemble instruments rather than "individual" instruments like guitar, piano, etc. Additionally she was at NHSMI during the summer of 2004 and there have been changes, so my comments may antiquated. One summer program that lets them know what a conservatory will be all about is Interlochen, and that's from DD herself.</p>
<p>We also know someone who did voice and German at Peabody/JHU, and found it do-able, but difficult. The transportation between campuses was tricky to coordinate, but she is almost done, and is glad that she did the DD program.</p>
<p>We also know someone in the recording arts DD program, who is liking it very much, but also finding the coordination difficult.</p>
<p>I'm not sure I need to continue my pros/cons list for Peabody. There are so many good things... Though a few warnings (some had been mentioned by others):
- the campuses are relatively far away. It is definitely not walking distince, but the shuttles that ran between the campuses are getting more and more convenience and efficient, so getting from one campus to another is usually not a problem.
- I do know individual teachers not supportive of DD students (as edad mentioned), so make sure you check with your future teacher before you decide.
- Practice room can be a problem, especially for DD student since the practice hours are more restricted by their schedule.
- Significant work load are to be expected. (This can be a positive experience, however, if you can manage that well.)</p>
<p>The DD program can be demanding, but if you pick the right majors :), it can be less stressful. According to one advisors at Hopkins, only 48 credits are required at the Homewood campus to finish the DD program (obviously, only if you pick the right major), so that translates to roughly 2 courses per semester in addition to regular Peabody load, which is not that bad. However, chances are most people will need more or much more than that minimum. This semester I'm taking twice the load of a regular Hopkins students (e.g. 35 credits), but I tend to think that I'm more an extremist than the norm, but the point is, my work load is still handlable but came with sacrifices such as not being able to do more performing, etc.</p>
<p>T, congratulations on being able to handle 35 semester hours! Very impressive.</p>
<p>I think that pretty well matches my definition of being a bit crazy and very determined. Hopkins is a no nonsense school that prides itself on pushing students to work hard. The double degree students are clearly a unique fringe group. </p>
<p>Guitargirl, it should be apparent if your D would like the level of challenge which seems to be the norm for a Peabody/JHU double degree student. This factor is probably a lot more important than considerations of University versus LAC, or rural versus city, or considerations of climate and geography. Any other questions about the pros and cons?</p>
<p>There haven't been any posts about Oberlin...where is BassDad?<br>
I am not a student there, but from what I have gleaned after a couple of visits and discussions with some double degree students, it seems to be a very workable program. The Conservatory is right on campus, no more than a short walk to any other building. There are about 40 double degree students per year; the students have counselors in both the Conservatory and College to advise them about appropriate course loads and distribution. Students can do honors programs in both. The practice rooms are open from early morning to midnight, every day -- there are 150 of them. It appears that a student could go there between classes if desired -- no shuttling back and forth. It is a very good conservatory and very good college, for both science and humanities. There are multiple musical events every day! The master classes, concerts, etc. are free. If it works anywhere, it looks like it would work there.</p>
<p>I responded to guitargirl in <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=3895605#post3895605%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=3895605#post3895605</a> and did not see the need to repeat myself here.</p>
<p>More about Oberlin:</p>
<p>Many of the most talented musicians at Oberlin are DD students. Last year, 3 of the 4 Concerto Competition winners were DD students. If you look at the total number of credits needed for DD versus single degree, you actually take less hours per semester with the DD program, although DD students are allowed to take one extra credit per semester without any additional fees. Of course it's a 5-year program. It can be done in less time with AP credits and summer courses. Everyone seems supportive of DD students and their time commitments. </p>
<p>My son is a first-year DD student at Obelin and is very happy. I was born and raised in Baltimore and studied piano and composition at Peabody so I know it well. Peabody has always had a fine reputation as a conservatory, but not on a level of a Juillard. It's location is dicey but the area has improved considerably since I lived there. On the other hand, Hopkins used to be in a beautiful and safe neighborhool that's now gone downhill and is not a great neighborhood. Also, it's a long bus ride up Charles St. to get to Hopkins from Peabody.</p>
<p>I think a visit to each campus would make your decision much easier, although your daughter probably went to each campus for her audition. But now you would be visiting under different circumstances. I know when my son auditioned at Oberlin, he was so wrapped up in his audition that everything else was a blur and he hardly noticed or remembered anything about the Con or the dorm rooms, etc. Seeing the school after you've been accepted is a whole different experience. Also, the shoe is on the other foot and now the schools are wooing you and enticing you and it's a wonderful feeling for the accepted student. </p>
<p>Best of luck to your daughter.</p>
<p>I would also agree about taking the time for admitted student visits. For Peabody/JHU it is best to allow a full day on each campus. As a minimum, I recommend meeting with faculty and department representatives and sitting in on at least part of several classes.</p>
<p>The "long bus ride" is actually about 3-4 miles and fairly quick. That still means losing about 20 minutes including getting to the bus stop a few minutes early.</p>
<p>I should probably clear up one thought about the double degree at Peabody/JHU. As pointed out by thzxcl, a double degree is possible with less than 50 semester hours over that requirements for a music performance degree. That may be more than needed at Oberlin but the requirements are still well within a reasonable 5 year pace. Peabody/JHU only offers the double degree to a very limited number of students and seems to be able to pick those students who are driven to take advantage of every opportunity and tend to take on very heavy courseloads. The Oberlin approach makes more sense for a larger number of students. In fact, I think a double degree should be considered for every conservatory student. Bard has adopted that model. Few conservatory students will actually make their living with music performance and even those who do can benefit by a more comprehensive education.</p>
<p>Not to complicate this discussion, but does anyone have any experience / persepective re: the Tufts/NEC double degree program?</p>
<p>A friend of mine went there –– really loves it. [he's in saxophone performance + something at tufts... not sure which.]</p>
<p>guitargirl - Congratulations on your wonderful options!</p>
<p>Our son is a Piano Performance/English double degree student in year three of five. (He transferred to Oberlin after two years at Lawrence) His piano prof is very supportive of the double degree program. </p>
<p>One thing to consider are the many distribution requirements one must satisfy for the B.A. degree. It is manageable; however one must truly plan a few years ahead to make sure all requirements are met. </p>
<p>Overall his experience has been very positive though intense. He feels that his advisors have been helpful, he appreciates the availability of practice rooms, having a dorm that is quiet and relatively close, and the opportunity to run off steam in intramurals. He feels stretched at times, but also believes that he has developed good time management skills. He is extremely interested in both of his degree areas and cannot imagine having had to pick one or the other. </p>
<p>He has had no trouble finding friends with cars when the need arises to go to Cleveland for concerts or just a break from the campus. He has also enjoyed exploring the biking/walking path to neighboring communities for outdoor activity.</p>
<p>I agree with edad when he said that it's very important to experience the environment first hand. Each school has its own culture and it's a lot less complicated if you can find the right "fit" on your first try.</p>
<p>If you have questions about workload, a quick answer would be just go to each school's website and pull out the degree requirements of both of your intended major. Then give a call to any person who is in charge of coordinating the double degree programs (I hope there is at least one person who knows what is going on...) and ask for which classes double degree-ers are exempted from. Then take the total and divide by 10 (10 semesters for a 5-year program) and compare to the regular load of other students. That should give you a rough idea about how much more intense is the double degree program. </p>
<p>If at all possible, visit the schools, try out the facilities (especially the transportation between schools that have campuses relatively far away). Sit through classes in both campuses, and if you can, even talk to the current DD students there (you probably have to do some contacting). I think besides the all-important issue of sucess rate/workload/etc. of a double degree program, the rest all come down to personal perference of the schools, very much similiar to just choosing a conservatory or a college alone.</p>