<p>Speaking of Johnny Incs, Are consultants better than the typical parent (or CC parent) in packaging a kid for presenting to colleges?</p>
<p>“Unless I’m wrong, I believe this is a recent phenomenon” OP, I think you are wrong in the sense that in the past you were tutored by your parents and today that parent tutoring is “outsourced” to pros, just like everything else is now outsourced…athletics to private clubs, play time to Chucky Cheese:) etc…</p>
<p>And Brooklyn is right, the students from affluent communities and related schools have a huge advantage. Mom and Dad in the 60’s in Lake Forest IL would tutor their kid in calculus around the kitchen table, today that same household outsources it to a pro while mom and dad are out to dinner.</p>
<p>tutoring and providing lots and lots of additional resources to your child’s human development, if you’re from one of these “families” and communities is nothing new.</p>
<p>red, blue: I think the kid should do it on their own. There was a great article from a Tufts admissions officer who said he can spot a consultant/packaged application every time, he called them the “Costa Rica orphanage” app. Because the consultant always adds a standout community service piece, etc, etc…the packaged kid has a packaged app.</p>
<p>the big secret in college admissions is that from Harvard to UVA admissions is looking for kids with focus and a passion for something, not a check list of things they were told they should do. My daughter had zero community service, but a hell of a passion for one thing and she got in everywhere.</p>
<p>Right–not all Saturday school kids are part of the Johnny Inc. group, but some are. In some cases, though, corporate mergers occur at Saturday school. It’s like Survivor. In the early years, the Johnny Inc.'s form alliances, and work together to dominate the competition. For instance, they maintain archives and share gaming information with each other, such as the best place to go for private whatever lessons. Pooling their collective industry knowledge gives unique advantages to their kids. For example, most parents of regular Johns aren’t aware of a certain placement test in math that is given every spring in certain grades in our district (I’m not competely sure which when it starts, since I am not privy to most of these trade secerets, but at least in 5th–8th.) The teachers don’t advertise this test, precisely because they don’t want parents to know about it and stress, and they don’t want the kids to prepare and study. They intend it to be a unexpected assessment which will accurately guage math knowledge for placement purposes. It came to my attention, however, that the Johnny Inc.'s knew approximately when the tests would be given and what would be included on them. My S reported he heard the Johnny Inc.‘s discussing the test and how they had been well-prepared for it because their parents knew what was on it. This really angered my son, who had no idea it was coming much less its content. He was especially mad because coincidentally, the night before that test. we had done something completely out of character for us and had taken him into the city for a special event, returning home around 2 AM. So S was unprepared AND exhausted for it. Just last spring, my littlest D told a similar story: that certain kids knew about this special test and what was on it, even though the teacher had said nothing to the class. She was upset because she was told it was for placement and she hadn’t studied like they had. None of my friends’ kids, who are regular Johns, knew about it in advance either. Hmm.</p>
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<p>As far as I’ve heard, that’s time wasted. The kids wouldn’t speak the language and how much better they become in other subjects is questionable. Kumon may have the same non-effect (no firsthand experience here).</p>
<p>Following on posts # 343:
I will speak to what I have learned from one of our in-state publics, very selective, #2 public in the nation. There is no formula. They want to know you were involved in something. Period. Now, I’m programmed to think passion as pacheight, but that comes in many forms for different things. Students from schools that offer 5APs are expected to do the same as students at schools that offer 15APs. Take the most selective course load available to you, and achieve well. You will be judged on your peers, not what students at other schools have done. They know which schools weight and which don’t. They know which offer many APs, but don’t allow them until Jr year. They deal with schools that have grading systems you couldn’t imagine. This is their job. I don’t think they’re perfect or everything is always ‘fair’, however I think they try very hard and do a darn good job.</p>
<p>The essay is very important and should be considered the students interview. It is their one chance to show off who they are as an individual. It needs to be in the students voice. Over polished is literally the kiss of death. They want to know who your student is, what makes them tick. I don’t know a single parent who is editing their students essay to this school for fear of injecting too much of themselves into it. Having a peer listen, and having an English teacher review to make sure it’s technically correct and offer suggestions. Your student can take or leave them.</p>
<p>As many say on cc, YMMV, however these are not one-off experiences. As it’s an instate school and students benefit from lower tuition so more than a few apply each year.</p>
<p>Several years ago I knew two legacies who were not accepted at their #1 choice. I showed each a magazine story profiling parents who drove for hours, micromanaged their kids and ran the gauntlet to get them in at Ivies. One family profiled in the magazine had their seven year old twin girls take up fencing (matches every night in the converted garage complete with scoring video taped analysis etc.). When I showed the article to these two bright young men, I prefaced it with something like - “you may be going to school X instead of Dream U, but at least you can look back on your 18 years and say you had a life”.</p>
<p>Kid A responded with a laugh and a shrug of the shoulders and gratefully acknowledged his parents willingness to let him grow up without too much interference. Kid B looked at me with a wounded expression and declared that nothing in the article would have been too much, he would have “done anything” necessary to gain admission. I advised kid B to be glad no one had taken him up on the offer to sell his soul and to get in touch with his true priorities (I saw him mid way through college at a top state flagship and he seemed to finally have his feet on the ground, had abandoned the “in” major for something he really wanted to do). I was very glad to see Kid B working things out for himself, his high school attitude was worrisome. I was never concerned about kid A - I’m sure wherever he is he’s done just fine and never given a second thought to the Ivy that didn’t have sense enough to take him.</p>
<p>In a competitive environment Johnny Inc. is often programmed from birth, but even if he isn’t, once he becomes aware of the field he’s playing on he is often willing to join the game in progress and laments his loss if his parents are unable or unwilling support him in his quest. This is not a healthy version of the village raising the child. The inequality of school funding makes this warped kind of village all too probable.</p>
<p>PCP, the Johnny Incs who begin as exceptional students and are then enhanced by a massive support system are probably unbeatable by the merely exceptional. I would think, however, that the number of such candidates is fairly small. The greater question becomes whether John the Exceptional can squeeze in ahead of Johnny Inc the Diligent, packaged to look exceptional. </p>
<p>I’ve got one of those exceptional kids (36 ACT, #1 rank, 8 APs taken sophomore year, 4 of the classes self-studied). If the admissions criteria is “what have you done with the opportunities available to you?” then he should be able to get into at least one of the top schools. On the other hand, no one at his school even knows about all these elite competitions and camps that others use to show exceptional talent; it’s pretty hard to compete in contests when you don’t even find out about them until just before your applications are due. So in a straight-up comparison of Johnny Inc-style extracurriculars, he might not be competitive. We’re hoping that his decidedly-non-cookie-cutter essays and “best student in my career” recommendations will help him overcome these EC deficiencies.</p>
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<p>Our kids did eight years at the local chinese school on Sundays. They can read, write, speak and listen. Useful when going to a part of the world where chinese is spoken and displayed on the street and for traversing the small Chinatowns in the US.</p>
<p>The Sunday classes are supplemented with one to two hours of lessons every other day of the week. That’s normal for a lot of chinese families.</p>
<p>You mentioned how some parents know about the placement test and the content of the test while others do not. That was our experience in Northern Virginia as well. There were kids who were prepped for the gifted exam, which supposedly you couldn’t prepare for. There were parents who always seemed to have a lot of information about the school and the teachers and the curriculum which was never published anywhere and which we didn’t know. There was some kind of academic playgroup for kindergarteners which we were never invited to join and which the other parents were very secretive about. There were first graders who let it slip that they were being tutored because they were only reading on grade level. (We were a new military family that had moved into the district and felt out of the loop until we moved away)</p>
<p>But regarding schools where the “in” parents know about the placement exam and other parents don’t, that’s actually discrimination. It could be economic, or racial. It could be gender based. In our case, when we found out that this was going on in our kid’s school (and in this case, everyone who knew about the content of the test went to the same country club as the principal of the school and incidentally the principal had opted against a standardized test, instead choosing one that her teachers wrote themselves), we reported it to the superintendent of schools. There was an investigation of the principal and she suddenly retired. </p>
<p>I’m glad I stood up against these practices. Doing so didn’t benefit my kids – but I think it’s important to at least attempt to keep the system honest.</p>
<p>I’m surprised you even found out what was going on, Momzie. Usually the parents who do not know, do not even know that they don’t know. They (OK, We) just have this nagging suspicion that everyone else knows what’s going on but for some reason we don’t.</p>
<p>^ If your son has done ‘something’ to account for his time in the summer (part time job, volunteering, etc.) I would not worry about not having selective summer camps. Admissions understand this is largely a regional thing and although the student has to be accepted, which IS and honor, the parents have to be able to pay. Not all students can do this, so it isn’t held against them. Some students in are area are NOT putting down summer programs because they don’t want to resume ‘pad’ with what some consider to have been a luxury…they feel glad to have participated, but not ‘special’. Many bypassed them to work this summer. Lifeguarding, grocery-store, a few internships the students got themselves.</p>
<p>I would be very glad for the unique essays, and excellent essays!</p>
<p>Momzie - Your kids had an elementary school gifted exam…that was leaked and studied for by a select few? Seriously? Crud!<br>
Are you talking about the COGAT’s? That would amaze me! But then a LOT has during this process.</p>
<p>When we lived in Silicon Valley many moons ago, S1 attended a private school which required parents to stand in line at 2 am in the morning on application day if they want their Johnny to have a shot at attending the school. I stood in line at 4 am and got a kindergarten spot for S1. </p>
<p>Fast forward to first grade. His school ran a science fair and every first grader was required to turn in a project. We were very inexperienced at this and I was too busy at work to get involved. Anyhow, after telling mom and getting the material he needed, S1 created a simple tube of mirrors and lenses that demonstrated reflection and focusing of light. He took his gadget to the science fair. </p>
<p>When we got there, I was floored. Every other first grader had brought in a folding board filled with color charts and detailed explanation of the project. Some of the charts had computer generated three-dimensional perspective drawings and high resolution photographs that you see in professional presentations. They might as well call it a parent science fair. I can’t believe how blatantly these parents were doing the projects for their kids! In the midst of all these fancy displays and glitzy instruments, stood our little boy holding what, in comparison, looked like a used little toy. I felt so bad for my son. Since he didn’t bring a display, he found a little chair and just sat there waiting. </p>
<p>I was so happy when his teacher stopped by to talk to him about his project. S1 face beamed with pride as he explained what he did and what his gadget can do. The teacher patiently listened to S1. When S1 finished his talk, the teacher said to him, “You have one of the best projects and one day you’ll be a scientist.” I loved that teacher. She made S1 feel confident about what he can do despite what others have done. That was the last year any of my kids attended private K-12.</p>
<p>Here is an idea for the non-incorporated crowd:</p>
<p>Encourage and nurture the creative side of your kids. This requires that they have downtime to think, reflect, experiment and play with different ideas. This downtime is what Johnny Inc. lacks.</p>
<p>Kids were tutored in kindergarten? Did it do much good when they grew up to be in HS? I don’t really know if there’s anything to be envious about that. The reason we have to let kids be kids is because that is the best way for them to develop their mind as well as their body, not just because that’s a nice thing to do.</p>
<p>EDIT Cross posted with PCP who said it better. Getting upset about all this tutoring is actually nothing more than underestimating what self-confident children can do with what they have.</p>
<p>We did have the ‘in’ pre-school that I didn’t know about when we moved here. The camping out over night to get a space was a ritual. We went to the ‘other’ pre-school and stayed there. Not that we were above it. Maybe if we’d been here a few years earlier and I’d known, I’d been having a sleepover outside the pre-school too. Our kids school was great and we felt no need to change.
It is an odd force…in fact just like ‘The Force’ (aka star wars). You can’t see it but it’s there, moving everything around you and it’s very easy to get swept up in it.</p>
<p>I’m going to agree with Iglooo on questioning the early tutoring. There are studies that show it is a wash by the time they are third grade. I can’t quote them, sorry. This doesn’t mean you should read to them, etc., but I agree that learning the ‘playground rules’ are a very important part of the early years. Remember what Dr Suess said, All I Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarden. I doubt he was tutored. :)</p>
<p>All I Really Need To Know I Learned In Kindergarten was written by Robert Fulghum. We used to have a poster with the text on our kids’ playroom wall.</p>
<p>I guess I am guilty of pre-gaming, my daughter did Hooked on Phonics at four. I just wanted to make sure she could show up Sally and Sam come kindergarten. :rolleyes: Seriously, when will the kind on nonsense that is being described on this thread end, and what’s next? Johnny incorporates his own business (with help from Johnny, Inc.) at age 9? Dad makes him V.P. of his company and writes him a LOR claiming Johnny played an intregral part in the latest corporate takeover? Sheesh!</p>
<p>Years ago, my daughter’s classmate strolled into the first day of kindergarten with Harry Potter tucked under her arm. The other parents freaked out. I think this is the same phenomenon, only for high schoolers and their parents.</p>
<p>If you really want to tick the competitive parents off, when you go to the third grade science fair, stroll around the displays speaking only to the children. Ask them only one question:
Tell me how you came up with the idea for your project?</p>
<p>Then ask them to explain it to you.
Watch their parents cringe as they explain: My dad looked up all the projects and decided we should do this one, AND
I don’t really understand the project. Mom and dad came up with it. </p>
<p>This activity is actually more fun if performed in groups with other parents who are like yourselves. </p>
<p>In my kid’s elementary school, they started having the kids bring the projects in early and having a day where each kid individually got up in front of the class and explained his project. I volunteered to “help out” in the classroom that day and enjoyed the results immensely. (I’m afraid the teacher and I took turns exchanging eyerolls when it turned out the kid had absolutely no idea what the project was about.)</p>