<p>Now there is no room for late bloomers. And by late, I don’t mean junior year of high school, but maybe in 6th or 7th grade? By 3rd or 4th grade the child’s math tracking has already been established, s/he has formed an opinion about his/her math ability level, and from then on the gap only gets worse. In 4th grade already my D told me she wasn’t good at math. Whoa! I remember I had a terrible year in 4th grade (really mean teacher who made me nervous) and flunked every math test. Yet I managed to recover in time to place into algebra in 7th grade (back when no one was more advanced than that), and managed to do quite well on my SAT’s. That scenario would no longer be possible in our district.</p>
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</p>
<p>If one key to success is to stand out from 10,000+ other applicants who all sport similar stats, that this is definitely a great strategy. Unfortunately, it’s also very very time-consuming to get off the beaten track AND accomplish something outstanding enough to impress admissions committees. Most of the time I bet the results are an accident – a kid pursues a hobby and falls into a way to make it into an admissions edge by being in the right place at the right time. </p>
<p>If one can manage to accomplish this by intent and careful planning, then Johnny Inc.'s high-paid entourage can almost certainly figure out a way to package such attributes, thus destroying their future potential. Wasn’t 3rd-world travel experience a huge plus back in the early-to-mid-90’s?</p>
<p>"That’s a funny comment…it’s definitely NOT that Asian parents love their kids more and are less selfish. This is just a cultural difference, generally Asian parents will force their kids to study A LOT more than non-Asian parents. I remember back in grade school, say we have 50 math problems assigned for homework, that most of my Asian classmates’ parents would have their kids do the homework questions and then would get supplement books and force them to do another 200+ problems per night. That’s a cultural thing that relates back to the way Asian (particularly Chinese) education systems works.Secondly, I’d argue that the parents are being MORE selfish. In many Asian culturals, the parents will force their kids to study, force them into a certain profession (generally one that makes money) so that in the end their well off children can take care of them in their old age.</p>
<p>**as a caveat, these comments were not meant to be judgemental/critical of Asian cultures. Just pointing out that generally, cultural differences are what are driving the phenomena that theGFG is seeing in his/her district. "</p>
<p>The bolded sentence above is very judgmental in imparting an individualist derived negative tone to a cultural value that is not seen as a negative in that particular cultural context. </p>
<p>Coming at it from the Confucian cultural context, the idea that well-off children should not be expected to support and care for their parents in old age would be considered revoltingly selfish in itself…especially among those older than 40 IME. Not that I necessarily agree with this myself, but it is a cultural value that IME resonates not only with most Asians, but many Americans…especially those in the “Silent Generation” and “The Greatest Generation”. </p>
<p>As for parents forcing their kids to do more homework problems, a part of this is cultural. They came from societies where failing to gain admittance to the topflight universities for undergrad will permanently close off future prestigious career paths (i.e. Working as government ministry officials which is considered highly prestigious, executives in prominent corporations, etc). </p>
<p>Moreover there’s also the fear among some parents that the US K-12 curriculum…even at the topflight public magnet, well-off suburban, and private schools would cause their children to fall way behind relative to the much more intensive curriculum from their countries of origin. </p>
<p>Understandable considering how using Taiwan as an example, what would be considered high school level courses such as biology, chemistry, physics, and earth science* along with pre-calculus/calc 1 would need to be completed by the end of junior high over there if one wanted to fulfill requirements to enter an academic track high school necessary to maximize one’s chances of doing well on the highly competitive National College entrance exam (Around 2005, 1/3 failed to score high enough to gain admission to any institution of higher education). </p>
<ul>
<li>All science courses listed here include lab component.</li>
</ul>
<p>cobrat - I agree with everything that you are saying and again, although the tone sounds negative, the comment is not meant to be judgemental. Just saying that this is a cultural phenomenon that makes Asian parents push their children even more so that other cultures. </p>
<p>I agree that other cultures also believe in caring for their elders. However my comment about it being selfish stems purely from my own anecdotal experience with some of my Asian colleagues where it was just about caring for your parents but rather about the parents wanting to show their friends how successful their children were. For example, I had two Asian colleagues when i was an investment banker who came from relatively well-off families yet in both cases when their parents wanted to buy a new house (colleague #1) and a new car (colleague #2), their parents actually gave them the money to buy it for them so that they could brag to their friends about how successful their children were that they were able to buy them an expensive house and an expensive car.</p>
<p>In our rural Upstate NY county the predominant native culture instills in its children the importance of graduating from high school, getting an early start in the working world and taking care of one’s family first. Helping with chores or caring for younger siblings is a higher priority than doing homework. College is important in today’s world, but you can live at home and still attend the CC or local SUNY. A car at age 16 is essential to function as a contributing member of the family and community. Owning land, even if left fallow, is more important than owning a fancy new house.</p>
<p>I’m not being judgemental. That is the way it is. No reason to ignore a discussion of the norms in other cultures and sub-cultures.</p>
<p>"For example, I had two Asian colleagues when i was an investment banker who came from relatively well-off families yet in both cases when their parents wanted to buy a new house (colleague #1) and a new car (colleague #2), their parents actually gave them the money to buy it for them so that they could brag to their friends about how successful their children were that they were able to buy them an expensive house and an expensive car. "</p>
<p>“help, help, my son the (asian) doctor is drowing”?</p>
<p>^ ??? Huh ???</p>
<p>you only have to worry about your kid.
why be concerned with other’s kid?</p>
<p>[my</a> son the doctor - Google Search](<a href=“my son the doctor - Google Search”>my son the doctor - Google Search)</p>
<p>oh, and the joke about drowning, is mentioned fairly prominently in Roth’s “Portnoy’s Complaint”</p>
<p>“And by late, I don’t mean junior year of high school, but maybe in 6th or 7th grade? By 3rd or 4th grade the child’s math tracking has already been established,”</p>
<p>I am quite sure DD was not placed in her math level till 7th grade.</p>
<p>No, I meant what the heck is “drowing”??? And how does that post really relate to the comment above it?
Now if you want to have a good laugh (sidebar here for a moment) google “twitteleh”. Its a riot</p>
<p>New immigrant parents attempting to gain status from child’s success.</p>
<p>"For example, I had two Asian colleagues when i was an investment banker who came from relatively well-off families yet in both cases when their parents wanted to buy a new house (colleague #1) and a new car (colleague #2), their parents actually gave them the money to buy it for them so that they could brag to their friends about how successful their children were that they were able to buy them an expensive house and an expensive car. "</p>
<p>Your two data points are very different from my experiences with Asians over the years. Many Asians are very low-key about their finance. It is their tradition that parents help their kids out financially if/when they can.</p>
<p>Someone talked about the serendipity of coming up with something off the beaten track. The original edition of “A Is for Admission” mentions a girl from our neighborhood who did just that. It’s a long time ago now, but it’s still an amazing story. </p>
<p>This girl was a star in gymnastics. When she reached puberty though, the coach basically wanted her to starve herself because she was piling on weight (in all the right places 
). The pressure of competition was strong. It became apparent that an Olympic medal was probably no longer a realistic goal. </p>
<p>She told her parents that gymnastics just wasn’t fun anymore. By chance, though, she heard about artistic gymnastics and she wanted to switch into that. Her coach went ballistic. The parents of the other girls told her parents they were making a mistake. She could certainly get a scholarship to college and to quit now–at age 12 or so—was INSANE. NOBODY cared about artisitic gymnastics. It wasn’t a “real” sport. </p>
<p>The parents listened to their D, who loved artistic gymnastics, who was eating like a normal teenage girl and said, “She’s happier. That’s what matters.” </p>
<p>Guess what? In 1996, artistic gymnastics became an Olympic event. The games were in Altanta and lots of people from my neighborhood went down to cheer on our own Olympian! She didn’t win a medal, but her Olympic dream came true. </p>
<p>What was hilarious was some of the parents of the girls she used to train with were convinced that her parents had somehow figured out that artistic gymnastics would become an Olympic sport and the switch was a strategic decision. It wasn’t. </p>
<p>Oh, and she had multiple offers of scholarships to college. In the wake of the 1996 Olympics, several colleges wanted to expand their gymnastics programs to the artistic events.</p>
<p>Never heard of “drowing”. Its not even in the urban dictionary!</p>
<p>it’s probably just a typo</p>
<p>""For example, I had two Asian colleagues when i was an investment banker who came from relatively well-off families yet in both cases when their parents wanted to buy a new house (colleague #1) and a new car (colleague #2), their parents actually gave them the money to buy it for them so that they could brag to their friends about how successful their children were that they were able to buy them an expensive house and an expensive car. "</p>
<p>[Your two data points are very different from my experiences with Asians over the years. Many Asians are very low-key about their finance. It is their tradition that parents help their kids out financially if/when they can.]"</p>
<h1>544</h1>
<p>I believe a large factor in your experiences was the fact you worked in investment banking which seems to draw materialistically ambitious people/their parents who have the idea of accumulating millions in the hopes of retiring early to a well-off lifestyle. </p>
<p>Whether that’s actually true or not, that seemed to be the main reason why so many high school classmates ended up in investment banking and/or mentioned as reasons why their colleagues were drawn to the field. In such an environment, it is no surprise you may not have encountered Asians/Asian-Americans who don’t put such a high premium on prestigious occupations earning high salaries and showing off their supposed high financial wherewithal to others. </p>
<p>553,</p>
<p>Unfortunately, there are Asians/Asian-Americans who are highly materialistic and boorish showoffs about it…no more and no less than in any other group. </p>
<p>Then again, like other cultures, there are also Asians/Asian-Americans like myself and some relatives who look askance on such attitudes and feel there is more to assessing a person than merely their occupation and net worth. </p>
<p>And many of those older relatives would be considered well-off financially, except they don’t feel the need to advertise it…even to their friends.</p>
<p>Responding to the original idea of having private tutors simply to “stay on top”…</p>
<p>…how utterly ridiculous. Perhaps a teacher is horrible; I find that to be irrelevant, though. If someone is HYP material, he ought to be able to self-teach from a book or even the internet, <em>while</em> still staying on top.</p>
<p>After all, if he can’t manage a near 4.0 in high school–without spending hundreds or thousands on private tutoring–how on earth will he survive a competitive college environment? </p>
<p>Competitions, though–I can agree that tutoring for this would be different. If someone is IMO material, for instance, he/she has talent that can generally only be cultivated with outside help. Competitions are so many levels above the typical high school curriculum.</p>
<p>I suppose an analogy would be: if you hope to run for the Olympics, I’d certainly expect you to be able to set a state record or two just by yourself. One-on-one training would prepare you for the actual Olympics–not the district track meet. :P</p>
<p>Yes, but it’s going to be hard for you to set that state record when you’re competing against equally talented individuals who have the advantage of private training and other special circumstances that you don’t. If you ever read track and x-c forums, you’ll see occasional complaints about high school kids who function almost like professional athletes. They are not running conference meets for an ordinary high school team, nor are they being coached by social studies teachers whose qualification to coach is that they ran in high school 20 years ago, and some of these kids don’t even have an ordinary high school class schedule. Rather, they have private Kenyan trainers or Olympic level coaches, they only compete at high level meets including running unattached at college races so as not to wear themselves out running lowly high school district track meets, and they attend accomodating private schools which allow them extended absences from school to travel out of state to these elite meets.</p>
<p>Once I conducted an informal survey of all the girls in D’s recruiting class who were faster than my D in her best event, in order to see what their secrets might be, eg. mileage, nutrition, etc. I read any published blogs and interviews I found online and noticed the pattern I outlined above: private coaching, and special academic and athletic scheduling.</p>
<p>Well theGFG the complaints I believe you are referencing are mainly directed at Lukas Verzibikas(sp) who is coached by his parents. He also runs most of his highschool races once triathlon season is over. Also if you count these national meets(which if you have the speed, are paid for) what do you place on say Travel soccer where most college recruiting happens? They have private coaches, they travel, and they miss school. Also alot of the public schools heavy on cross country travel to these meets as teams (F.M., Toga, Woodlands, York), what do you say to them? They have special school schedules, they travel (for Toga/FM its east to west coast for NXN) with of course special athletic scheduling.</p>