<p>
</p>
<p>Nonsense. Plenty of kids succeed in challenging math and science courses in college without requiring tutoring.</p>
<p>One of my daughter’s HS classmates was homeschooled before middle school. She had a math tutor then and kept the tutor through high school. She always was recognized as the top math student in the school, but DD always thought that was odd considering she had always had regular individual help. </p>
<p>The good news is that those who get tutoring to keep ahead of everyone else will not have tutoring for life. Somewhere along the way they will have to do it on their own like the rest of us.</p>
<p>I would pay for tutoring for underachievement but not so that my kids could move ahead of everyone else. I did, however, send a gifted kid to camps. I was always careful that she did things that were not offered at her school so she would not be ahead.</p>
<p>Tutoring has become virtually “essential” in my area, for several segments of the public school spectrum, in the following regard:</p>
<p>(1) for students wanting a competitive edge in college admissions, not even for Elites, but just mid-level publics. This is because of the minimalist approach to actual teaching, in many (obviously not all) suburban public schools;</p>
<p>(2) for students wanting more expert guidance for both SAT Subject Tests and for AP Tests, because high schools have been skimping on the quality of subject instructors. The skimping is often a result of public education budget cuts, with its union priority on seniority retentions, even if such teachers have no experience with an AP format course (or that subject).</p>
<p>(3) for students already excelling, but want to differentiate themselves from close competitors, with better writing performance, testing skills, and higher-level reading skills. These families are going for enrichment reasons, but finding that enrichment “essential” for reach publics and for competitive privates.</p>
<p>(4) for students needing to close real gaps that were never addressed in school formats prior to their enrollment in tutoring programs. (middle-school gaps, high school gaps)</p>
<p>(5) as an anxiety-reducer for parents getting on the bandwagon of peer families doing the same, and also because of cetain enrichment gaps in public schools (elimination of GATE programs or funding; reduction of AP & other opportunities @school; paucity of writing assignments in school). These parents often explcitly say, “I want to make sure my child stays achieving and does not fall behind; I can’t count on the school to ensure that or to communicate with me accurately about my child’s level of achievement.”</p>
<p>Nevertheless, as I mentioned on 1 or 2 other threads, private or commercial tutoring is increasingly replacing the assigned role of public schools in teaching to think critically and to master the skills for full fluency. Many students are not being adequately prepared for the reading levels required in college, and if not having accessed tutoring prior to college, have sought it on an intensive level after college enrollment, out of necessity. </p>
<p>I do not agree that math and science in college cannot be mastered without private tutoring before college, at least not for graduates of certain publics and for most privates. Both of my daughters, graduates of privates, have done better at college than some of their publicly educated classmates; neither of them has needed tutoring in college, including in math/science. That’s not to imply that one must be privately educated to do well in college math/science, just that many schools prepare students adequately.</p>
<p>where I live, tutoring is the norm unfortunately. I have a child who struggled in math and science, so I got a tutor to assure a PASSING grade. Then I found out that kids are routinely bumped up to AP courses and tutored weekly to stay abreast of the material. I am pretty appalled that the system is so out of whack. no wonder there is a huge disparity in grades and scores between the haves and have nots. how can you possibly argue with kids from lower socio-economic backgrounds getting an admission “hook”? </p>
<p>otoh, I have no issue with kids who go to math camp, etc. if that’s a kid’s passion and fun, then so be it. there are scholarships and so on for any child who has the ability and interest to attend.</p>
<p>but this whole cottage industry of tutors…makes me upset.</p>
<p>I have encouraged, nagged, yelled and done my level best to get my kids to achieve their potential academically. but like the other poster, I have put a premium on the fact that this is their CHILDHOOD. they will never get this time again, so if they choose to be carefree and get a 92 instead of a 98, then so be it.</p>
<p>It’s nothing new - just more out in the open, maybe. And only among a small percentage of families hell-bent on getting their children into a handful of elite schools.</p>
<p>^ depends on where you live, katlia – whether that’s a “small” percentage or a very large percentage.
;)</p>
<p>
ROFL - I am definitely not brilliant. My kids went to a decent high school that no one in this county thinks is excellent. You want to talk about drop out rates? We are lucky that most of the AP courses are taught by good teachers (though most of the AP classes are very large so that struggling kids can have smaller classes.) </p>
<p>I agree that even our good teachers have not focused on writing to the extent that I think should be done. Part of that is because the classes are big. It’s a lot easier to read 10 papers a week (the size of classes at my high school) than 30.</p>
<p>I agree that summer math camps are not the same thing as tutoring at all.</p>
<p>My kids went to an ultra-competitive independent high school. I was absolutely stunned to find out about kids who were being tutored in AP classes. (The AP classes are competitive to get into.) Tutoring was rampant. It seemed almost “unfair,” although I do realize that it’s a ridiculous feeling to have. 
But, this is a school where virtually everyone is focused on only three universities. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>“depends on where you live, katlia – whether that’s a “small” percentage or a very large percentage.”</p>
<p>– so true, epiphany. I was thinking big picture, but you’re right, in some milieus not so small.</p>
<p>"Nonsense. Plenty of kids succeed in challenging math and science courses in college without requiring tutoring. "
-There are few who do not succeed per each one who did. Percentage of “original” pre-meds who ended up applying to Med. School is low. In engineering, the results might be even lower. Yes, there are the ones who succeed, but I am talking about majority who does not, unless they recognize the gap and fill it as soon as they can. And they do NOT need to pay $$ for it. They can obtain help in other ways.</p>
<p>This topic surprises me. I don’t know of any AP level kids at our high school getting tutoring. We are not in an urban area and not really suburban either. Is it more East Coast I wonder? I ask because I don’t know where most of you live.</p>
<p>I’m with you, Greta. I live in a major Midwestern city, and I’ve never heard of this. </p>
<p>MiamiDAP – Many kids who start out thinking they want to be doctors or engineers switch gears not because they’re tanking academically, but because they’ve found another academic area – perhaps one they didn’t even know existed when they started college – that captures their interest.</p>
<p>I wonder how useful it is for a bright kid to have a tutor? Don’t you develop bad habits when you always have someone nearby to spoon-feed you knowledge, rather than figure it out on your own?</p>
<p>My son competes in math, and he would probably benefit from a tutor, if we could afford it and if we could find one who could keep up with him. Typical math competition problems often involve already knowing some obscure formulas; my son runs into a bunch of problem-types he’s never seen before and proceeds to formulate alternate and perhaps unique ways of solving these problems on-the-fly. With less than 3 minutes per problem, this is NOT the path to getting a first prize ribbon. He does manage to get 3rd prize, though, and I have to think his mind has been stretched far more by this innovative process than if he had been previously coached or tutored with the “correct” way of doing each type of problem. Later, he attempts to google conventional ways to solve these new problems.</p>
<p>Doesn’t this turn out to be better training for the real-world task of trying to solve problems where no one in the world has yet found the solution? Tutors can only take you so far; there is a point where they become a crutch.</p>
<p>Hmmm… This was nonexistent at my son’s school. I have heard of the AP kids getting tutoring if they didn’t understand a subject but not to stay on top. As for the very top students, they tutored but they were not receiving tutoring. So to the OP, it is entirely possible to be at the top of the class without receiving any tutoring whatsoever. Oh, my son went to a good public school in Southern California. The top 5 went to Cal, UPenn, Harvard, MIT, and UPenn so they didn’t do too shabby with their lack of tutoring. :-)</p>
<p>As for my son, he was always ahead in everything. I always felt that if they gave him placement tests to decide where to put him and he scored well, then he should be put in whatever class was appropriate. I decided to let him go ahead and told him that if he started to need tutoring to stay in such advanced classes, then I would rethink the level of class. Countless people (friends and well meaning family members but no teachers), told me that I was nuts to let him try and that I would have to spend a fortune to help him succeed. 13 AP classes later, he finished #1 in his senior class and never had a tutor.</p>
<p>Tutoring happens in our area – this is the land of The Overachievers. Have also seen it in the specialized programs freshman year where kids are struggling to get up to speed after coming from home middle schools where foreign language and math instruction may have been more spotty (physics freshman year in the math/science program is a real wake-up call to kids who had mediocre math instruction in MS).</p>
<p>We considered tutoring for S2 late third quarter freshman year when he had a D in Alg II w/Functions, but he did lots of extra practice problems, DH worked with him, and I made up practice tests. He pulled it up to a B. Did not feel it worth the cost and angst to pay a tutor for As. By the end of AP Calc he finally was getting As and felt like all that effort was worth it.</p>
<p>The high-level summer math programs are geared to teach things NOT covered in HS math. S1 was at a top HS math/science program (took every course but one offered) and attended a summer math program – where it was all new material. The tippy-top math and science folks we know were taking 400-level classes at the flagship or doing research with a prof. It was definitely NOT to improve their HS grades.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Maybe because AP courses are suppose to be college-level courses. If a kid isn’t ready for college level work without a lot of supplemental tutoring perhaps they don’t need to be in an AP course.</p>
<p>My son’s private college prep school required that the student complete the honors level course with a very high B or better, have a teacher’s recommendation and, in many instances, take an entrance exam before allowing them to take AP courses. We had over a 90% pass rate on the AP exams (they were required to take the exam in order to get credit in the class). They specifically did this to make sure that things like having to have a tutor to get through the class wasn’t necessary. </p>
<p>At son’s school, the only kids who had tutors were those in danger of failing a class or those whose families pushed their kids to the brink in an effort to get them into an Ivy League school. All I can say is I’m very proud that my son was an A- student (took loads of honors classes, 7 AP courses, was a Latin scholar and was a national merit semi-finalist) without having to be tutored outside the class. I’m certain he could have been an A+ student with the proper pushing from us and a team of tutors but I’ve never seen the point in that. The kids in my son’s school who’s parents were insistent that their kids perform way above their natural ability all had major issues of one sort or another. There’s a big difference, IMHO, between providing your child with the appropriate level of support to ensure they don’t fail and insisting they become superstars.</p>
<p>
Well, it didn’t 4 years ago. 3 AP’s and never a tutor. Now… she was a tutor. 
Really, folks. Don’t let yourself get drug into this scene too far. The kids might end up someplace they don’t need to be. JMO.</p>
<p>My oldest son has always been very strong in math. In junior high he entered a math competition and placed first in our district. He then placed first in the regional competition. I had many parents come up to me that day wanting to know who his tutor was. That surprised me since I never thought of tutoring for someone that didn’t need help passing the class. He went to a public school and was just taking regular math classes. Now for my youngest currently in high school, he goes to weekly intervention classes at his high school after school just to keep him above water in math and science.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Totally agree with this. If the only way your kid can make it into HPY et al is by being tutored all the way, you really need to re-think that. I seriously doubt most kids at those schools needed that kind of support to get there. All you’re doing is throwing your kids into a environment where they will never feel good enough and might find themselves struggling just to pass their classes.</p>
<p>We live in a “uber” competitive east coast community and my kids have gone to our public HS. It was so good, why would they go elsewhere? Sure, there are privates in our town too and the nuevo-riche who have the extra $60 grand and/or the insecure send their kids there. So which kids go to a tutor for AP “extra” help? Both groups!</p>
<p>Did we send our kids to a tutor for a little bit of extra practice, even if they didn’t struggle? Nope. We figured if they could handle AP level courses, then they’d have do it on their own. My son graduated with 10 APs (and all 5s), but we didn’t pay a dime for a tutor.</p>
<p>Why do that if you don’t “need” one? If someone has a chronic problem with sleep, let’s say, I think it’s okay to take meds for that. Get a good night’s sleep. But, if it’s not a chronic problem, why would you take meds? Soon, you’d feel you can’t fall asleep without the meds. Kids start to feel they can’t be successful if they didn’t have that crutch/extra help. That’s not really a good message.</p>