The ultra competitive business clubs put me off. My child was oblivious, but I girded myself for the scene. She has landed in a lower pressure school (I think).
1 Like
When I worked in M&A decades ago, history majors were hired along with Wharton students, but it depended on one’s college. LACs like Williams and Amherst were represented by less pre-professional majors, though in smaller numbers, along with students from private and large state universities that did not offer business degrees. Undergraduate business degrees were less common then and most waited to study such curricula until seeking an MBA.
Just like attending a private high school with a high number of APs on offer necessitates a student take a good number to demonstrate curricular rigor, students graduating from competitive universities with specialized B.S. Economics in Finance will have the edge over other majors.
Just to earn a non-paying internship for junior year summer, which offers a better chance of postgrad job offer, necessitates EC experience evidenced by membership in the most competitive pre-professional clubs on campus. Others can get opportunities in such environments, but they are not the norm. Firms can train analysts, but if there is a proven supply of those who are already prepared, they won’t need to.
Of course such competition for first jobs relates largely to the most sought after firms in the most strategic cities. Over the course of one’s career, experience and proven abilities can bridge initial disadvantages. But it has never been more competitive. Poor kids!
1 Like
Wow. Totally ridiculous and sad.
2 Likes
You can certainly get a job, but the path can be more challenging.
My daughter is not in a business program and she is not in any of these clubs at her highly selective school, but someone this summer suggest she apply to the big three consulting firms for an internship next summer.
She ended up getting interviews with 2/3. She was quite successful, making it through several rounds of screenings and even making it to final round interviews. She did not get an offer.
Would she have gotten an offer has she been in a consulting club? Not necessarily, of course. But, she was completely on her own in preparing for these interviews. Because she isn’t a business major, she has never been expected to prepare a case or be in that kind of interview situation. She spent hours upon hours researching, practicing, and generally preparing. Had she realized this might have been a goal and had joined a club, she would have not only practiced many times over, but also had access to alumni who help these clubs prepare, too.
I attended a T20 and worked as a consultant for a Big 6 firm (dating myself back to the 90s). A close friend has a BS and MBA from two different Ivies and was a consultant at one of the more boutique-y firms. Neither of us realized until my daughter went through this process the value consulting clubs have at gaining employment at the tippy top firms. I think a typical student can easily get an interview and job at Deloitte, PWC, etc. without the club experience. But for kids who are aiming at the McKinseys of the world, it is possible but they are at a disadvantage.
5 Likes
To be clear, my daughter IS doing things, enjoying college experiences, and not focusing on apprenticeship-like experiences. She wouldn’t change her path. It makes her interesting and marketable in a different way. But in some respects, the path is steeper for these particular positions.
1 Like
Even the applicants with club experience may not get through all the rounds. McKinsey is particularly challenging. For a student to get far in the process without specific career counseling, etc. is impressive.
As an aside, students often pursue dual degrees with finance or other business studies to complete their education, so critical thinking, conceptual development, and writing skills that can be developed through less pragmatic, academic coursework are then covered.
1 Like
I think your child is at a school my child was considering. Ultimately turned down - she didn’t know about the competitive club scene but I did.
Not a knock on it at all - but I was worried.
Yes, she said everyone at school was incredibly impressed that she got so far with McKinsey especially! She is a liberal arts major, too, so it wasn’t as if she was wowing them with her computer science or other highly desired skill.
And you are absolutely right. I am sure there were kids from her school who were members of a consulting club who never made it past the first screening.
2 Likes
Maybe, but I don’t think my daughter’s school is unique with the clubs. She pursued a pre-professional law fraternity as a freshman and didn’t get a bid, so she joined a non-competitive version of the same club and has had a great experience. She was able to be in a leadership position early on and has been able to have more impact than she might have had in a different organization.
She ultimately found her greatest fulfillment in an organization that isn’t related in any way to her professional interests. She is developing many skills through it that will serve her well in the long game even though the activity isn’t career- focused for her.
Likely not then. I was on a FB group with some other parents of accepted students and read a post by a parent lamenting how competitive the clubs were.
Even when clubs are competitive entry via initial application/interview process, there are some that offer access via EC coursework outside class hours arranged by said clubs. These opportunities allow non-business candidates to learn basic skills of analysis and gain familiarity with financial documents. If such students pass a set assessment at the conclusion of classes, then they earn acceptance to such clubs.
Thanks for the tip.
1 Like
At my daughter’s school there are many consulting groups and none are run by 20 yr kids whose only work experience is at Dunkin. Instead, they are seniors who have interned at all the major consulting firms.
3 Likes
It is common for seniors to run the clubs, and they often have multiple internship experiences, but the new recruits who are freshmen or sophomores can be taught and developed.
1 Like
I do dislike this highly scripted process — as you point out, that is a normative statement :-). I think it stifles creativity. Never been a fan.
I am inspired by examples such as my son’s room mate who, from a standing start, made a first time resume, did some light prep, and got an internship at a well regarded firm in 3 weeks straight including the time for interviews. Unrelated major.
2 Likes
I find UCB’s question very interesting. Even if the thread may have initially been thinking of pre-professional clubs, I find it fascinating that service clubs at Georgetown and Harvard (per the alum’s Youtube video) are having this competitive process. I would love to know if there are other clubs that were historically inclusive that are now competitive. Also, are other pre-professional clubs outside of finance having this? What about pre-med, pre-law, architecture, engineering, or CS clubs?
I wondering whether how things are now compare to bygone eras is reflected in one of these two circumstances:
-
T20 or T50 national universities (as the liberal arts colleges seem to be more on the “open” side per the other thread
-
Finance/investment type clubs
If a kid is attending a school ranked #125 or #250 or #375, are they still having this type of competitive experience? Or is their experience similar to what people had in the good 'ole days?
I didn’t read CC much last fall when DD22 was applying, but I was all over Poets and Quants and Wall Street Oasis. Some of the Finance/Investment clubs didn’t exist 20+ years ago notably Kelley’s IBW and USC Trojan Investment Community.
3 Likes
I was told by a neighbor that her daughter wasn’t accepted into the main community service organization at UVA; that it’s in fact highly competitive. I was amazed that kids get turned away to do volunteer work!
3 Likes
I think these might be secretly pre-law or pre-med. Like social justice law
4 Likes
Well, one of my kids attended a school barely in the top 100. While those students weren’t competing for MBB jobs, there was a similar level of competition and focus on the preparation, perhaps because they knew they were not at target schools and thus had to work harder. The result was that some of those students seriously out-performed the school’s rank and got jobs I expected to be out of their league. A good number ended up on Wall St or in corp fin at FAANG, or at the Big 4 accounting/consulting. I was shocked, but I acknowledge they were remarkably well prepared by application time and presented well.